00:00:00: Introduction
00:01:02: Fast-fire questions…
00:02:23: …1: your yr in a phrase
00:05:02: … 2: most memorable day
00:09:09: … 3: mistake moments
00:15:46: … 4: an improved talent
00:20:48: … 5: appreciations
00:24:36: Reflective questions…
00:25:01: … 1: optimistic affect
00:28:30: … 2: studying sources
00:35:14: … 3: this time subsequent yr
00:37:50: Remaining ideas
Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast. Each week, we speak about a unique matter to do with work and share concepts, instruments and actions that can assist you, and it all the time helps us, to navigate our Squiggly Careers with that bit extra confidence and readability.
Helen Tupper: And at present is a particular episode as a result of it’s our Yr in Overview episode, which is especially for our most frequent listeners. If that is the primary episode you might be listening to, I am undecided it should be essentially the most helpful, nevertheless it’s insightful.
Sarah Ellis: I feel the questions are going to be helpful.
Helen Tupper: That is true. We will ask one another a sequence of questions, some quick-fire inquiries to mirror on the yr, after which some barely deeper ones to get some perception from what we have carried out and what we’d do in a different way subsequent yr. So, the questions are helpful, our solutions could be irrelevant. However if you’re a long-time listener, you would possibly discover it attention-grabbing to listen to a bit bit about our journey in operating our enterprise, Superb If, and dealing collectively as pals and enterprise companions, and all of the issues that go along with that. Are you prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Prepared.
Helen Tupper: Okay, so we have got 5 quick-fire questions. I really feel like I am a bit extra in management at present, as a result of I’ve received them written down.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, she has the iPad.
Helen Tupper: So, we have got 5 quick-fire questions after which we have got three barely extra considerate reflections. So, perhaps I will ask you yours and I will do mine, so we’ll do backwards and forwards?
Sarah Ellis: Sure, yeah, let’s do it.
Helen Tupper: All proper, okay. So, the primary query, quick-fire query —
Sarah Ellis: And we do not know what we will say, so we do not share these with one another beforehand.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, properly I do know what I will say, however I do not know what you are going to say!
Sarah Ellis: No!
Helen Tupper: I’ve carried out some preparation!
Sarah Ellis: We all know half of it.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, as a result of these questions I feel, truly, only a aspect observe, if you’re going to do these questions, I feel placing folks on the spot with them, I feel you need to give folks these questions prematurely of a dialog, simply to allow them to give it some thought a bit.
Sarah Ellis: And so you do not have recency bias, since you do have to mirror. You are reflecting in your complete yr, you are not reflecting on what occurred within the final two or three weeks, and it is really easy to get distracted by that.
Helen Tupper: And we are going to get on to the questions, however I used to be going by way of, I did a LinkedIn publish, I do type of memorable moments from the yr, the place I’m going by way of my telephone, 9,000 images from —
Sarah Ellis: Oh my God!
Helen Tupper: I do know, I checked out like my telephone, I used to be like, “2024, it is like 9,000 images, that is loads to scroll by way of!” After which I attempted to select one picture from every quarter that was an actual memorable second for me. And that was truly fairly a superb prep for at present, as a result of it simply jogged my memory of sure issues that had occurred that I am undecided had been high of thoughts once I was answering these questions first time round. You prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: Okay, so your yr in a phrase?
Sarah Ellis: Gritty.
Helen Tupper: Oh!
Sarah Ellis: What’s your yr in a phrase?
Helen Tupper: Grit! Yay!
Sarah Ellis: It seems we spent various time collectively!
Helen Tupper: Okay go on then, why was it gritty? You went ‘gritty’, I went ‘grit’.
Sarah Ellis: Sure, I feel gritty, as a result of it wasn’t like the entire yr wanted a lot of grit. However I believed there have been explicit moments in each quarter of the yr the place collectively, truly, we needed to be very gritty to get by way of them, both as a result of it was a problem that we might not anticipated; we had been making an attempt to complete one thing, and we’re each extra starters than we’re finishers, so it wasn’t essentially all the time one thing had gone fallacious; or that we had been simply discovering one thing onerous and it is troublesome, which I feel that is a superb factor. It challenges you, however typically then that is the place you’ll want to be at your grittiest to make progress.
So, once I take into consideration after we had been gritty, the precise examples, the conditions and situations, are fairly diverse, nevertheless it was type of the identical talent that I felt like we needed to hold drawing on to search out our means by way of these moments. And I all the time really feel actually pleased with them as properly. So, I do not assume grit is a nasty factor. I do not have a look at all these moments and assume, “Oh, that was as a result of one thing was fallacious”, essentially. Typically it was, nevertheless it’s form of the, what do you’ll want to do in these moments? You should be gritty. Why do you say grit? The identical causes, or completely different?
Helen Tupper: Nicely, earlier than I had grit, I had the phrase, ‘push’, and I believed you would not prefer it!
Sarah Ellis: Push? How do you describe your phrase of the yr? Push! What had been you pushing? Me?! Push Sarah, do some extra work!
Helen Tupper: Nicely, I feel at first I used to be like, at occasions I felt we had been pushing towards one another a bit bit after we had been making an attempt to create issues. We had been making an attempt to push issues. I felt like truly, it could have been simpler to not do a number of the stuff that we did, however we had been like, “No, push on”. After which I used to be like, “Push is only a garbage … I imply, the phrase, ‘push’!” So, I went with ‘grit’.
Sarah Ellis: That was fairly bleak!
Helen Tupper: I do know, that is what I believed. So I used to be like, “I am unable to have push”, however I did have push after which I scratched it out.
Sarah Ellis: So principally, grit was your good aversion?
Helen Tupper: Sure, after which, you recognize why grit? As a result of I used to be going again to, the definition of grit from Angela Duckworth is, “Ardour and perseverance for long-term significant targets”. And I used to be like, properly, that is why we pushed, proper?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: As a result of we’re captivated with what we’re making an attempt to attain. And we recognise that what we’re engaged on now could be greater than what’s taking place on this yr. It is the longer-term issues. So I used to be like, “No, it’s grit”, however at occasions it felt, ‘push’!
Sarah Ellis: Or, ‘pushy’!
Helen Tupper: Yeah, however then I received into, “Was I being pushy?” and I simply scrapped it. However I’ve talked about it now anyway, so.
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, at the very least we’re constant.
Helen Tupper: Sure, however let’s examine.
Sarah Ellis: Let’s examine.
Helen Tupper: Let’s examine how constant we’re.
Sarah Ellis: Could possibly be a bit boring if we’re the identical each time, so let’s hope we’re not.
Helen Tupper: I do know, gosh, are you able to think about? Okay, what was your most memorable day of the yr?
Sarah Ellis: I did wrestle with this, to actually select …
Helen Tupper: Have all of the good days all of a sudden blurred into simply …
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah, positively that. I did wrestle to pick in the future the place I used to be like, “Oh, it was positively that day”. I feel after we do occasions, that all the time actually sticks in my thoughts, as a result of I feel quite a lot of work goes into occasions. After which it is a very a lot form of a second in time the place you get to, you recognize, we have carried out some reside podcasts this yr, we have carried out some work with our studying companions once they’ve all been in a room studying collectively. And I feel the rationale these moments all the time stick out is due to the vitality that is created, and vitality is considered one of our values at our firm. And I feel it is a second the place you are feeling all that collective vitality, which I actually like.
And I feel it provides you a lift to proceed doing what you are doing, since you’re like, “Oh, what we’re doing is making a distinction”, and you’re feeling that and also you get to attach with folks. So, occasions. I simply went, all the occasions we do, I really feel vitality and I really feel prefer it provides me vitality. One different memorable second I did have although was we had been engaged on our e book collectively, and I’ll all the time keep in mind the second the place we modified our minds —
Helen Tupper: Oh, yeah.
Sarah Ellis: — on how we had been going to construction the e book. So, we had gone, I feel it is truthful to say, fairly far down one —
Helen Tupper: I feel we might in all probability written 30,000 phrases or extra by that time.
Sarah Ellis: Sure.
Helen Tupper: Which is half a e book.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, do not, let’s not get particular as a result of it is actually miserable. However I actually keep in mind the second the place we might circle round a couple of occasions of like, “Oh, there might be a unique means of doing this”. I actually keep in mind standing up in that room, strolling over to the flipchart and saying to you, “If we did do that in a different way, let’s simply placed on a flipchart, let’s get it out of our techniques, what would it not appear like? And we wrote it. And I used to be standing up, you had been sitting down, which is often how we brainstorm. I am meandering round and also you’re type of sitting again and taking a look at it, after which we each checked out it and we had been like, “That is higher”. And that second of realisation of —
Helen Tupper: “Oh, no!”
Sarah Ellis: — what we needed to let go of to get to one thing higher. We had been like, “This will probably be higher as a result of we do that”, and it felt nearly concurrently robust, and the fitting factor to do. I’m actually pleased with us in that second, as a result of I do not assume that is a straightforward factor to just accept and to maneuver on from, and I feel we did try this. And we all know now, as a result of we have had sufficient folks learn it, that it was the fitting factor to do. However I feel it is a courageous factor to do. So, it isn’t like that day was explicit — we did not know that was going to occur that day, we simply thought we had been iterating on what we might already carried out. However we made an enormous resolution that is truly going to affect a great deal of the work that we do. I’ll all the time keep in mind strolling over to that flipchart.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I keep in mind it, I keep in mind it very properly and being like, “Oh, that is it”.
Sarah Ellis: What was yours?
Helen Tupper: Mine was an occasion nevertheless it was the occasion that you simply weren’t at.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, thanks! Nice.
Helen Tupper: It was wonderful.
Sarah Ellis: You say I am imply!
Helen Tupper: No.
Sarah Ellis: “That occasion that you simply did not come to”.
Helen Tupper: No, it is as a result of it was like an actual second for me. So, we launched this yr, Gremlins, which is a e book with Pound Mission, and we had a reside podcast occasion the place we had varied folks on the stage, like Daisy Buchanan for instance, all speaking about confidence, and this was resulting from be a second —
Sarah Ellis: To rejoice, yeah.
Helen Tupper: — to rejoice. E book writing is tough and it takes some time and it was presupposed to be, like, a second.
Sarah Ellis: I like that e book.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, and I am actually pleased with the e book and actually loved the method, and I feel Sarah typically leads issues with books, since you’re simply excellent at sticking with them, so it is an actual ‘you’ factor as properly. And you then could not be there since you had been poorly, and I keep in mind being on that stage and pondering, “Oh, I do not actually need to do that with out you”. There was an actual second of me — it was a extremely good occasion and it was a very nice second, and the conversations had been actually good. And there was quite a lot of assist.
So, a few of my pals knew how I felt they usually had been within the viewers, they usually’d messaged me beforehand they usually had been like, “It’s going to be okay, it’s going to be okay”, so it was actually type. However equally, I used to be stood on the stage pondering, “I do not actually need to do that with out you”. So, it was an actual memorable second as a result of, not that I might by no means thought I did. It wasn’t like, “Up till this level, I believed I need to –“
Sarah Ellis: “I’ve received my secret marketing strategy”!
Helen Tupper: Yeah! However it was simply, it does not actually imply loads, it does not imply as a lot. We all the time speak about, our most memorable moments are so significantly better after we’re in them collectively. And that was a second that you simply simply weren’t a part of and it simply felt fallacious due to it. So, our third query is about mistake moments. I would want your assist with this one, as a result of I am fairly certain I’ve had various mistake moments throughout the yr.
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, we all know we have now as a result of we share them.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I do know. And I did seek for them and I used to be like, “Oh, however what’s been…” I really feel like my largest mistake second is one which I may repair. Earlier than the tip of the yr, I feel I can repair this one. So, my mistake second is, Sarah and I, all of the work that we do with corporations, after we’re presenting, we reside draw all of our periods. We do not current with slides, we reside draw all the pieces, and we have used the identical app for the final ten years to try this. And my app’s received a bit glitchy and I feel I have to experiment with another tech, and I really feel like my mistake second is I have not carried out that.
I’ve not made time to proactively discover a higher choice. So, I really feel like I’m simply, one thing is inferior to it might be, and I am simply sat with it, and it stresses me out each week. It stresses me out as a result of I feel, “Oh, it should go fallacious, it should go fallacious”. So, my mistake second is, there’s one thing that I might be fixing however I am simply sitting with it not being pretty much as good. That is what I received to. Is {that a} mistake second?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: Okay. Give me one.
Sarah Ellis: However I feel the rationale I do not assume… What you are describing although is sort of a pre-emptive mistake second, since you’re going, “I do know that app would possibly break, or it feels a bit glitchy”.
Helen Tupper: Nicely, it does break, so I repeatedly have the identical mistake. My different choice —
Sarah Ellis: So, I suppose that is type of a immediate perhaps. As a result of after we speak about mistake moments, it does are usually, you possibly can actually pinpoint, “I made a mistake. I used to be late [or] I received some data fallacious [or] I used the fallacious knowledge level”. Whereas I feel you are speaking about being pissed off about, you possibly can see how one thing may be higher and you’ve got simply not carried out something about it.
Helen Tupper: However that mistake — I feel my different choice, one other mistake, and this can be a little bit of recency bias as a result of it actually occurred this morning, was yesterday, I used to be doing one thing with somebody on our workforce and I wrote an entire doc for them they usually mentioned, “Oh, Helen, I’ve already written that doc and despatched it to you”.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, no!
Helen Tupper: And that’s not the primary time that that has occurred. So, I feel I am noticing I am making a couple of repeat errors. My tech has gone down a couple of occasions and I have not mounted it.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is attention-grabbing.
Helen Tupper: I’ve carried out the work earlier than, I’ve carried out what the workforce have carried out with out checking with them first. So, I feel my mistake second is I’ve received some repeated flags of being a bit, I do not know, a bit inefficient. I do not know. That was my reflection once I was excited about all of them.
Sarah Ellis: I used to be researching errors a bit bit for the brand new e book that we had been writing. And the extra you examine errors, the extra you realise it’s unsurprising to repeat errors, as a result of our brains like patterns they usually like familiarity. And so truly, you are extra prone to repeat the identical mistake than you might be to be taught from a mistake. We all the time assume, properly, you make a mistake, nevertheless it’s okay since you’ll be taught from it.
You are extra prone to not be taught, which is why we do mistake moments the place throughout the corporate, each time you make a mistake, somebody goes into Groups and truly, to all the firm, we share, “Here is the error second I had however most significantly, here is what I realized”, in an try to interrupt that sample. As a result of what you would possibly say there’s, “Okay, that second mistake the place I do work that is been carried out earlier than, that comes from taking initiative and possibly appearing quick”.
Helen Tupper: Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: “And so truly, perhaps what it’s, is earlier than I do that, I have to have nearly like a press-pause second”.
Helen Tupper: I really feel prefer it’s test first, act first.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, test first.
Helen Tupper: However I simply act quick!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and it is simply that tiny test that may maybe stop that. And I feel when you do not flip a mistake second into an motion conceivable taking, then nothing… Like, I positively precisely the identical. I am like, “Nicely, I’ve not taken an motion”. If I’ve not carried out something completely different, how can I count on a unique end result? As a result of I discover that with my mistake moments, it’s typically, even when they are not equivalent, you possibly can generally spot a theme. What’s yours then?
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, I regarded again over all those from this yr in Groups, as a result of I can return and actually learn all of them. Mine are all small, however ones that felt, I used to be nearly stunned that I made them. So, when you simply mentioned to me, you’re going to make this error, I might be like, “No, I will not make that mistake”. So it is issues like, we turned as much as an occasion this yr and I might not received a little bit of know-how with me that we all the time want, all the time. So, you are like, “Nicely, however Sarah, you recognize that”. And curiously, I did not do not forget that tech.
I would just moved home. After which I checked out one other instance and I used to be like, I did not have one thing else with me, I might forgotten one thing, and one thing else was occurring in one other a part of my life. And so, what I’ve began to identify is once you’ve received a great deal of capability, clearly you are much less prone to make a mistake, you keep in mind what you’ll want to keep in mind. However then I am like, however there’s all the time different stuff occurring. You understand, there’s all the time one thing, proper? There’s one thing at your children’ college or there’s one thing with your loved ones. And this yr, and I discover it very stunning, I’ve received actually into checklists. I learn the guidelines manifesto!
Helen Tupper: It is so in contrast to you!
Sarah Ellis: I do know it’s, nevertheless it’s as a result of it really works. And so, for issues which are repeatable duties, have a guidelines, as a result of basically you make one thing extra foolproof. And quite a lot of it comes from like, you recognize surgical procedure, the place docs may have checklists.
And truly, although they may have carried out the identical surgical procedure a great deal of occasions, they nonetheless discovered folks nonetheless make errors. Even such as you would possibly neglect to, I do not know, wash your arms or one thing. So, I felt higher as a result of I used to be like, okay, perhaps I do not really feel fairly so unhealthy about myself that I made these errors. However truly, there’s a straightforward repair you could put in place. And we have simply began to make use of them throughout the workforce, and I do open them. I am like, “Oh, I am simply going to undergo the guidelines. Have I received this little bit of tech? This? That?”
Helen Tupper: I am not checklisted up. The place do you assume a guidelines would assist me in my life?
Sarah Ellis: Going to an occasion, operating a workshop, doing a podcast recording so you do not neglect your mic, you recognize, all of these kinds of issues.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I imply I really feel like they are not my points.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, but when it isn’t your errors, when you’re like, “Nicely, I haven’t got these errors”, you maybe do not want the checklists, you want different issues.
Helen Tupper: Yeah.
Sarah Ellis: I clearly do as a result of I am like, properly, I can see the patterns and I can then see, I am like once more, “Nicely, I’ve received to do one thing completely different”. And I do not assume I am naturally, like I mentioned, clearly I neglect them as a result of I can type of see it written down. That is why I like writing down mistake moments, as a result of it makes them knowledge moderately than simply feeling unhealthy.
Helen Tupper: You understand what, I really feel such as you might need misplaced your pockets much less this yr. Is {that a} truthful level?
Sarah Ellis: I do not ever lose my pockets.
Helen Tupper: You used to lose your playing cards on a regular basis, do you keep in mind?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: You probably did?
Sarah Ellis: No.
Helen Tupper: You’ll all the time be like, “I am unable to discover my playing cards, I am unable to discover my…”
Sarah Ellis: So, proper, so my argument is, proper, there is a distinction between not having the ability to discover one thing —
Helen Tupper: Oh, good lord, no!
Sarah Ellis: So, I do not ever lose them completely.
Helen Tupper: Okay, certain. I really feel like you’ve gotten misplaced your playing cards much less this yr
. Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that could be true.
Helen Tupper: Fourth query, what’s a talent that you’ve higher at over the past 12 months?
Sarah Ellis: I discovered this the simplest of the questions.
Helen Tupper: Okay.
Sarah Ellis: I feel it’s receiving suggestions particularly from you, as a result of after we’ve gone by way of the method of writing a e book, and due to the way in which that we have written our newest e book, I’ve acquired extra suggestions, I feel, than I’ve ever acquired earlier than. And a few of that’s hard-to-hear suggestions, or it is suggestions the place you might be perhaps beginning once more a number of the time.
There’s various sunk prices within the writing course of usually. And generally, you must take a deep breath, otherwise you really feel sure feelings, and also you type of need to experience out these feelings after which come collectively and be very pragmatic and sensible, and in addition be actually open. So, often, you write one thing and also you assume, you are like, “I feel that is good [or] I feel this works rather well”, and you do not, proper? And so, you possibly can argue about it in an unhelpful means, or you possibly can constructively try to be actually open, try to hear. You positively need to put any ego I feel you must one aspect, albeit writing is sort of, in some methods, it’s fairly an ego-driven factor, since you’re writing these phrases. I felt actually proud at occasions that I felt like I at the very least tried, you’ll inform me the way it felt from the opposite aspect, I attempted to be actually accepting and open and constructive. And at occasions, that was that was actually troublesome, however I used to be additionally aware of, I attempted to take care of that in my very own means, so then it did not type of get in the way in which of us making progress, as a result of I feel if I simply type of… The problem generally with you and I working collectively will not be solely are we writing collectively, we’re operating a enterprise collectively, we’re excellent pals collectively, and generally I might be like, “I need to speak to a good friend”, and I used to be like, “however you are my good friend”, and I used to be like, “I would like new pals”!
Helen Tupper: That is suggestions!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah. However you recognize once you’re like, our worlds generally are so blurred?
Helen Tupper: Sure, sure.
Sarah Ellis: You and I had a couple of occasions this yr the place you are like, proper, all the pieces merges and moulds collectively in such a means. And I feel throughout that course of, I used to be simply very centered on being like, how will we hold transferring this e book ahead in a means that is actually pragmatic, and simply hold our readers in thoughts. However it wasn’t all the time straightforward. And I do assume I’ve received higher at that now, partly by way of observe, proper? For those who’d mentioned, “I simply need to get higher at it”, in a vacuum, you in all probability will not. However I feel there was a little bit of a forcing operate, and since it wasn’t very easy. It wasn’t like we simply wrote all the pieces and went, “Oh, yeah, it is all good”. It was fairly a unique course of to writing Gremlins, the place actually we had been speaking about issues that we already knew labored and there was much less form of newness that we wanted to create there. So, yeah, that was my talent.
Helen Tupper: Nicely, I feel that I do not actually love giving troublesome suggestions. It isn’t one thing I actually take pleasure in doing. And I feel I gave what in all probability felt like troublesome suggestions that did not really feel troublesome. So, I am unable to say, “Oh, I feel you are so significantly better at this than you had been 12 months in the past”. I can say I feel we have had quite a lot of it this yr, and it positively has felt onerous at occasions. However I’ve by no means discovered it onerous to speak to you. So, you have all the time been receptive and open, and I can see the breath. I can see it, like actually like a, “Okay, let’s go once more”. I can actually see it, however there’s all the time a, “Let’s go once more”. There’s not a, “Proper, I am coming to battle you on this level”.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, yeah.
Helen Tupper: Mine is, I do not know when you’ll agree with this, however I feel I’ve received higher at this.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, go on.
Helen Tupper: The talent of claiming no. I feel I am saying no extra. I feel I’ve received my very own little no-cabulary, which we have talked about earlier than, I feel I’ve a means of doing it. However I positively assume I am saying no to extra issues, to sure alternatives that we have had. I am like, “I do not assume that is the fitting factor for us proper now”. I really feel like I am getting a bit higher at saying no and never feeling unhealthy about it, which is the second a part of saying no, I feel. You have to say no and truly personal your no. Reflections?
Sarah Ellis: I suppose I do not see it, however then I do not assume I’d.
Helen Tupper: Okay.
Sarah Ellis: You understand, I am not seeing these noes more often than not, I’d think about, since you’re coping with it straight, so it isn’t that seen for me. I suppose different folks in our workforce would possibly see it extra. You’ve got talked to me about one factor that you’ll say no to subsequent yr.
Helen Tupper: Already mentioned no.
Sarah Ellis: Which stunned me and I used to be like, “Oh, Helen’s going to say no to that!”
Helen Tupper: But in addition, we had fairly an enormous alternative that we mentioned no to lately.
Sarah Ellis: Sure.
Helen Tupper: And I feel I used to be form of holding the no on that one a bit bit.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and I feel in all probability for me as properly, it is onerous to be actually balanced round that, as a result of generally, I suppose, the conversations we have now are the place you have not mentioned no and you then’re actually feeling it. So, I feel I really feel these moments the place you have received actually crunchy occasions, and I am like, “Wow”, it is since you’ve mentioned sure to a lot. I feel I see the spikiness that creates for you and you are like, “I am going from one factor to the following, to the following, and I’ve received a night factor, and I’ve received one other night factor”. I feel, simply due to our relationship, that’s extra seen to me than the noes, which does not imply I do not imagine you. I simply do not assume I see it.
Helen Tupper: It’s best to see the noes in my inbox. There’s many, many like, “Not proper now”, sort factor.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is good.
Helen Tupper: The final one is, what will we recognize about one another? Over the yr, what have you ever appreciated? What have you ever appreciated about me this yr?
Sarah Ellis: I all the time really feel such as you need me to be completely happy.
Helen Tupper: I do!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I do know!
Helen Tupper: I do!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah. And so, I feel you care about what does it take and what does it appear like for Sarah to benefit from the work that she does, do the work that she’s finest at, after which you’ll all the time assume, how can I make that occur? How can I be useful? How can I provide the area to try this? Even when it isn’t the identical for you, which truly typically is not the identical for each of us, we positively have some issues in frequent, however I all the time really feel that assist from you to be like, properly, if I then mentioned one thing completely different to what you already find out about me, I simply all the time know that your first response is certainly like, “Proper, okay, properly what do we have to do, and the way can we take into consideration this in a different way?” If I mentioned to you, “I need to work –” this isn’t true, “I need to work in the future every week”, I do not assume you would be like, “Oh, no”, you would be like, “Proper, okay, properly let’s speak about that”.
Helen Tupper: I feel I might do the breath that you simply do with suggestions. I might be like, “Okay, in the future every week, let’s discover a means”.
Sarah Ellis: However you’ll discover a means.
Helen Tupper: I’d discover a means.
Sarah Ellis: That is a really Helen phrase, you are like, “Let’s discover a means”. I do assume it is fairly uncommon to have another person who you are working with who’s so invested in your model of success. And that feels very nice, as a result of that appears like we will have very completely different conversations. And also you’re truly very non-judgmental. As a result of I do know generally issues that may matter to me would not matter to you, and in addition vice versa. I really feel such as you’re by no means going, “I do not get why that is essential, Sarah, why that may matter”. I simply ask, “How can I assist or how can I assist?” and I feel that’s uniquely you. And it isn’t simply within the final yr, however I do all the time really feel it. There you go.
Helen Tupper: That is very good, thanks.
Sarah Ellis: You appear like you would possibly need to hug me.
Helen Tupper: I really feel heat and fuzzy. Sarah Ellis: I am like, “Do not hug me!”
Helen Tupper: I am not going to hug her, she’s received a chilly. I am not going close to her. Mine, what I recognize about you is, I’ve put ‘challenger’.
Sarah Ellis: Fairly completely different to what I’ve simply mentioned!
Helen Tupper: No, however I really feel like you might be all the time difficult us to be higher, just like the e book, like how may it’s higher? You understand one thing may be higher, you will not let it go, you would be like, you’ll problem us to enhance the standard of our studying, the place I will be like, “Okay, I feel it is ok”. You are like, “No”, you’ll all the time problem us, or how can we be extra related? Or how can we enhance what we’re doing? Or how can we do that higher for the workforce? And even after we’re busy, like this yr, we have had a lot on, we have had the enterprise and we have had the e book, there’s been a lot on, and you do not let that go. You all the time hold that bar of like, “Nicely, how may we be higher? How may we make that sentence higher?”
Like, it goes from technique to sentences! The problem, you apply it to a lot of what you do, and I feel it is simply very completely different to me. And I am very grateful for it, as a result of I feel we’re all higher, what we produce is healthier, the workforce is healthier. I’m higher as a result of you’ve gotten this type of relentless, “However we may try this higher, we will make that completely different. We should not simply settle for it as a result of that is what we have carried out”. And I feel I actually recognize it as a result of it isn’t what I carry. And so, I actually worth that you’ve got all the time received that.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I feel it is simply, you recognize these items, generally in all probability the belongings you recognize essentially the most are sometimes, you recognize, like a part of your DNA. Like, I do not really feel like I select that. I simply really feel like that’s the means that my mind works, generally for higher, generally for worse. Similar to I feel your mind works in a means the place you are like, you would not query me, you’ll discover a means with me. I feel that is simply your — you recognize, generally our defaults are additionally what makes us actually good. And it’s good for folks to say what they recognize about you. It is a good workforce train.
Helen Tupper: Group train. Group train, it is good. So, let’s transfer into three reflective questions, perhaps not so fast, perhaps a bit extra thought’s required.
Sarah Ellis: We weren’t that fast, had been we?
Helen Tupper: We weren’t that fast!
Sarah Ellis: We had been luxuriating within the end-of-year podcast, aren’t we? Helen Tupper: I feel, however is not that good?
Sarah Ellis: It’s good.
Helen Tupper: Is not it good to luxuriate on the yr, although? You understand once you undergo stuff so quick on a regular basis, truly it is fairly good to simply spend like 15-20 minutes luxuriating in what you spent a yr of your life doing. Okay so let’s luxuriate some extra. When do you assume you’ve gotten had essentially the most optimistic affect this yr? I’ve gone with two, which I’ve received a protracted checklist!
Sarah Ellis: Nearly the query ought to be like, “Have not I?”
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I’ve received a protracted checklist! So, I’ve received two. Perhaps you possibly can determine for me. Perhaps that is a part of it, like, it’s best to determine once I’ve had essentially the most optimistic affect.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, okay.
Helen Tupper: So, I’ve put two down. I feel there are particular consumer programmes that I’ve run, and I am undecided if I can title them, however there are a few large consumer programmes that I’ve run that I really feel like I’ve made a extremely large distinction to the corporate and the folks within the corporations, nearly like at a cultural stage, and I really feel actually pleased with that. That is had a big effect for these people, and truly for us by way of {our relationships} with these shoppers. I am pleased with that. After which I feel we have had a few campaigns, like issues just like the Dash in summer time. I really feel like one of many variations that I — I am fairly good at a marketing campaign. You are actually good at a long-term dedication, like a e book. I am fairly good at a short-term challenge. And I really feel like I’ve a optimistic affect on — we had 1,000,000 minutes of studying that individuals did in our dash this yr due to what we created. And I’m going, “Nicely, that is 1,000,000 minutes of studying that would not have occurred if we hadn’t created the dash”. So, these are mine.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, I do not assume I can select. I really feel like they had been each good.
Helen Tupper: “A kind of was garbage, Helen, you possibly can’t bag that one!”
Sarah Ellis: No, I may positively not select. And truly, mine was completely different.
Mine was our Squiggle and Keep programme, which the optimistic affect is, a small slice belongs to me, however a lot of the optimistic impacts of that programme belongs to you and the companions that we labored with, as a result of actually they had been those doing the experiments. So, the thought with that challenge is that individuals signed as much as new methods to assist folks to form of transfer round their organisations. And I feel the optimistic impacts that I particularly had, that is nearly like a superb observe for an interview query, is not it, like, “How did you contribute to that large challenge?” was nearly in the beginning with the concepts. So, we created an concepts financial institution for the businesses. I feel it had 16 completely different concepts in, and it was like, “Oh, you would attempt profession safaris, you would attempt transfer mentoring”. The rationale I feel we have now a optimistic affect in that second is we’re good at each arising with concepts, and that is a energy that I’ve received, but additionally describing them in a means that is memorable, form of labelling the training, giving them a reputation, giving them a little bit of an id. And I feel we had been type of a catalyst for these organisations to then say, properly, you modify them otherwise you adapt them or iterate, be sure that they work in your context”. However I really feel like if we weren’t that catalyst, these organisations and all their staff who then benefited from these experiments, that would not have occurred. A bit like your, “The million minutes would not have occurred if we hadn’t carried out that”, I form of go, a great deal of folks would not have had the chance to squiggle and keep if we form of hadn’t created that programme.
And like I say, I really feel like we had been the catalyst, after which a great deal of the onerous work was carried out by the organisations we labored with, like Specsavers and Welsh Water and Danske Financial institution. And I keep in mind pondering like, “That is wonderful, what they’re all going away and doing”. Then, I am actually proud that we have then printed all the outcomes of that and all the information brazenly in order that anybody can entry it, and that feels very in keeping with why we had been an Superb If and what we try to do round profession growth, like making it out there to all people. And so, I feel I am taking a small slice of credit score for one thing that really I really feel simply actually pleased with everybody who was concerned in that.
Helen Tupper: Nicely, if that was an interview I might provide the job.
Sarah Ellis: Thanks.
Helen Tupper: You’ve got received the job to Squiggly Profession co-founder, I will let you’ve gotten that!
Sarah Ellis: Thanks!
Helen Tupper: I am laughing at this one, as a result of you do not know my reply to this one.
Sarah Ellis: Go on.
Helen Tupper: Who have you ever been studying from this yr? Who’s going first?
Sarah Ellis: Go on then, you go, since you’ve received me intrigued now.
Helen Tupper: I do know. I have not advised you this. You are going to be like, “What is that this?” Okay, so I’ve been a part of — what? What?
Sarah Ellis: It will be some type of bizarre YouTube factor.
Helen Tupper: No, it isn’t.
Sarah Ellis: Oh, okay.
Helen Tupper: It isn’t. You are going to assume that is actually bizarre. Flip Flippen, who I’ve not advised you about, okay. So, I’m a part of a community known as EY Successful Ladies, and I’m going to numerous occasions with this group and meet a lot of completely different folks. And I lately went away with them to a convention, known as the Strategic Development Discussion board, the place you bought to select some folks to fulfill. And one of many folks that I wished to fulfill was Flip Flippen.
Sarah Ellis: I imply, what a reputation.
Helen Tupper: I do know, precisely. However he additionally runs a studying organisation over within the US, significantly centered on training. And so, oh my God, I have not advised you this. So, I went to fulfill Flip Flippen. I do not understand how previous Flip is. I feel Flip could be about 80.
Sarah Ellis: Proper, okay.
Helen Tupper: 70, 80.
Sarah Ellis: Numerous knowledge then.
Helen Tupper: Numerous knowledge. And I sat down with Flip and his CEO. And Flip is a psychotherapist by coaching, and he type of brings. You sit — I sat at a desk, it was a spherical desk, and also you sit there and he like appears into your soul. I began crying!
Sarah Ellis: How have you ever not advised me this?
Helen Tupper: As a result of I’ve not caught up with you concerning the Strategic Development Discussion board.
Sarah Ellis: Okay, yeah certain.
Helen Tupper: So, principally it was a extremely attention-grabbing dialog.
Sarah Ellis: I imply that is just like the sound bathtub factor another time, you popping out of one thing crying, and me going, “What is occurring?”
Helen Tupper: Me hugging the therapist! That was essentially the most wonderful expertise I’ve ever had in my life! When he hit the bong.
Sarah Ellis: It did nothing for me, for certain.
Helen Tupper: No, he did not have a bong. However we did sit at a desk and he was asking some questions. I used to be asking Flip about like how’s he scaled his enterprise and the way does he use know-how, and all this sort of stuff. After which, he was simply asking me these actually deep questions on, like, what motivates you to do what you do?
Sarah Ellis: And also you began crying?
Helen Tupper: Nicely, as a result of he stored going additional and additional. It was like he was wanting into my soul. He was like, “However why, Helen? What’s the that means for you in your work? What drives you to make a distinction to folks’s growth? I used to be like, “I do not know, I simply need to assist folks, Flip”!
Sarah Ellis: Oh my God!
Helen Tupper: Anyway, I realized quite a bit from him as a result of he was simply very honest and really heat, and I feel generally you assume somebody has to let you know one thing to be taught from them, however truly I feel I simply realized that generally, simply asking questions is sufficient. You understand, like, once you’re being mentored, I feel you are like, “Oh, the worth on this dialog is the knowledge I will get from Sarah”. I am undecided Flip imparted any knowledge on me, however what he did do was ask me some questions that made me assume a bit extra deeply about what I am doing and why I do it, the place my motivation comes from, and linked, and since he was actually taking a look at me. We had been on this huge convention, so many individuals, busy, noisy, however he simply checked out me and requested me the questions and waited for my reply. And I feel it is such a, I do not know, I feel I used to be a bit overwhelmed; I used to be a bit drained! I feel there have been different causes I cried, and it wasn’t like an outpouring, it was only a… After which he went again, he mentioned to me, “There was a little bit of emotion there, Helen, can we return to that?” and I used to be like, “Can we not? Can we transfer?”
Sarah Ellis: I might like to have been a fly on the wall for that half! However perhaps there’s one thing there about asking and a spotlight. So, he was each asking you actually good questions, after which actually paying consideration. As a result of if he seen a little bit of emotion, but additionally being very current.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, simply when your eyes get a bit bit glassy. I used to be like, “I used to be making an attempt to neglect that”! So, yeah, anyway that was a dialog.
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, there you go, there’s new information for me.
Helen Tupper: New information, information you did not know. Who have you ever realized from this yr?
Sarah Ellis: I truly considered this barely in a different way, as a result of I feel in a lot of methods, I’ve spent various time on my own this yr, by necessity. It sounds actually bleak, does not it? However if you find yourself writing a e book and you do not do it fairly often, so that is a lot of phrases, books are actual workforce efforts, however there’s a part of the e book writing course of that could be a very solo endeavour. It may be fairly lonely at occasions, however I did really feel like one of many issues that I actually take pleasure in about writing a e book is the method of studying from a lot of folks that really you have not met.
So, I feel my ratio of non-fiction e book studying once I’m writing a e book goes up tenfold. If I have a look at what number of books I’ve now received versus what number of books I had in the beginning of writing my newest e book, I’ve in all probability received 50 new books. And generally that is as a result of I wished to learn a chapter, generally it might be as small as a paragraph, generally it was the entire e book. So, I really feel like I’ve frolicked with a lot of new folks. And at the very least a few of these folks, I feel I might prefer to get in contact with and see in the event that they’d like to come back on the podcast, for instance, for skilled interviews. So I used to be like, properly, I’ve positively realized from these folks, whether or not that is about pausing or perfectionism or being a newbie or whether or not that is giving. And generally, these books as properly form of take you exterior of your world. They don’t seem to be about careers or they are not about studying, however they’ve written one thing linked or that someway is attention-grabbing to what we’re writing about. So, I used to be like, they’re in all probability the folks I’ve realized essentially the most from.
However I’ve additionally realized, I do not know whether or not I’ve realized from, however I’ve actually wanted two of my pals this yr, Rachel and Rob, who I’ll give a shoutout to. I really feel like they’ve been by my aspect by way of that writing course of in a means you could’t do, since you’re within the writing course of and you’ll want to critique it and we have to form of edit it collectively. I’d simply go away them voice notes form of saying good day and type of describing the place I used to be, they usually all the time knew what chapter I used to be engaged on. And I might be in the identical place doing very related walks day by day, and I might be like, “Oh, I am on the Being a Newbie chapter and I’ve received to the tip of that [or] I’ve provide you with a good suggestion right here [or] I’ve received a bit caught”. And Rachel’s received her little child, Janie, and so I am very grateful she’s on maternity go away!
Helen Tupper: As a result of you possibly can go away her these voice notes and he or she’ll hear!
Sarah Ellis: I mentioned to her, I will want some type of transition plan. When she goes again to work, I will want some type of like, how do I get weaned off her giving me all this? So you recognize, I feel, generally your excellent pals, they usually’re two of my finest pals, they know what you want once you want it, they usually’ve actually proven up for me and been extremely supportive. And I type of cannot think about having carried out it with out the 2 of them. And Rob’s additionally, he is the one particular person truly, apart from our editor, who’s learn the entire e book. He gave us some actually useful insights as we had been going. And you recognize once you simply want simply these — I do not want a great deal of folks, however I do want a few individuals who I really feel are on my aspect, are with me, and they’re prepared you to succeed. And they’d in all probability hear generally if I received a bit caught, if I used to be doubting myself they usually’d try to like, I do not know, at the very least encourage me or remind me, “You’ve got carried out it earlier than, you are able to do it once more”. And so, yeah, I suppose it did make me mirror a bit bit on the continued significance of getting the fitting folks, since you by no means fairly know once you’ll want them. For those who had mentioned to me that was going to be as essential because it has been this yr, I do not assume I’d have guessed that, however I do not assume I’d have gotten by way of the yr with that grit with out them.
Helen Tupper: Very good. Okay, final query. Sarah Ellis: Okay.
Helen Tupper: Are you prepared?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: What do you need to be true in 12 months’ time that’s not true at present?
Sarah Ellis: I would really like us to have spent extra time creating collectively in a room by this time subsequent yr.
Helen Tupper: Oh, I would really like that too. I did not write it, however I would really like that too.
Sarah Ellis: Disgrace, disgrace. I imply, do not feel unhealthy about it, however you recognize!
Helen Tupper: I need that too; I’ve actually missed that this yr. I form of assume that the muse of all the pieces was time like that collectively, and we simply have not had that point.
Sarah Ellis: I feel all of our greatest stuff, once I take into consideration all the pieces we have carried out that is actually good, that makes a distinction to Squiggly, will increase our affect, and even when we have now carried out the e book stuff collectively this yr, all of our large breakthroughs on the e book had been collectively, and usually in a room collectively, me pacing in circles, you sitting down watching me tempo.
Helen Tupper: Strolling down the seaside.
Sarah Ellis: Strolling down a seaside collectively. I imply we ditched a few of that stuff, however you have to get to that breakthrough to get to the following breakthrough. And even when I feel again, whether or not it is TED Talks or podcasts, or these sorts of issues, it is all the time in these moments the place our brains are type of fizzing and merging and completely different in all kinds of fine methods, and that is why I am like, we’re higher as a result of we’re a workforce. And yeah, for plenty of causes this yr, I feel we have now to take accountability for that. We did not prioritise it and we did a number of the issues that I feel we’re each actually pleased with. However I would not need to be sitting right here this this time subsequent yr and never having spent that point collectively.
Helen Tupper: Agreed.
Sarah Ellis: I am not forcing you into it now.
Helen Tupper: No, I do know.
Sarah Ellis: “I do not need to spend extra time collectively!”
Helen Tupper: No, I actually need to, no. Mine is completely different. So, by this time subsequent yr, I would really like there to be 10,000 lobsters able to be taught. I need that as a result of our new e book, Be taught Like a Lobster, is popping out in simply over a yr. So, by this time subsequent yr, I need there to be like a stage of pleasure. I need there to be 10,000 people who find themselves like, “I’m in, I’m able to be taught like a lobster, I am able to advocate for this new means of approaching”. I need there to be pleasure, clearly, as a result of I do.
Sarah Ellis: And we will not speak concerning the e book masses, however I really feel like if we will say the title, we must always clarify that lobsters by no means cease rising. And there is heaps to like concerning the lobster. They by no means cease rising, they gas their very own progress, they’re very self-sufficient, they type of create their very own progress, after which they type of develop by way of these fairly onerous moments. And that provides you a little bit of a touch. It’s kind of of a teaser for what’s to come back. It should make sense, the truth that we’re speaking about lobsters and studying, we promise.
Helen Tupper: With 10,000 folks, we’ll be purchased into it by this time subsequent yr, they usually’ll be making it make sense!
Sarah Ellis: Whether or not they prefer it or not, it is the way in which they’ll describe it!
Helen Tupper: Precisely! Lobsters are go, lobsters are rising and lobsters are studying, that is the plan.
Sarah Ellis: So, if you want to do a yr in overview, I feel you are able to do it by your self, I feel you are able to do it with a good friend, you are able to do it in a workforce, you would do it together with your supervisor. Take a look on the PodSheet, as a result of we’ll put the questions that we have talked by way of at present on there, so you possibly can refer again to these. We have now additionally received a couple of different assets. We have got articles, we have got frameworks you could have a look at. So, please profit from these. They’re all free and prepared and ready for you.
Helen Tupper: Thanks a lot for listening to us and to our journey over the past 12 months. It has been a superb yr of studying with the Squiggly Profession neighborhood. So, thanks for being a part of that. And we’ll be again with you subsequent yr.
Sarah Ellis: So, here is to some squiggling in 2025.
