00:00:00: Introduction
00:06:20: The whens
00:12:19: The hows, and concepts for “sure” actions …
00:12:51: … 1: take into consideration a “sure, if”
00:15:38: … 2: contemplate “sure, as a result of”
00:18:39: Concepts for “no” actions
00:19:03: … 1: quick filter
00:23:10: … 2: supply another
00:25:40: … 3: current your priorities with satisfaction
00:28:35: Concepts for “do not know” actions
00:29:44: … 1: use your do not is aware of to ask for assist
00:33:19: … 2: reframe from understanding to studying
00:34:42: … 3: transfer from do not know to knowns
00:40:02: Remaining ideas
Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And that is the Squiggly Careers podcast. Each week, we discuss a unique matter to do with work, and share some concepts and instruments that we simply hope will show you how to to navigate this Squiggly Profession that all of us have with a bit extra readability and management.
Helen Tupper: And in case you are a primary time listener, welcome. You may not learn about among the different sources that we create to associate with the episode. So, each considered one of our episodes comes with a PodSheet; that is only a one-page abstract that can assist you be taught, mirror and take motion. We even have one thing known as PodMail, which is an e-mail that comes out each Tuesday. It simply places all of the hyperlinks to all of the issues that we discuss in a single place for you.
And we now have PodPlus which runs most weeks, not each week simply due to different commitments we have got, nevertheless it occurs each Thursday morning once we can do it. It is half-hour and it’s a sensible neighborhood of like-minded learners who all form of contribute to the dialog and produce their very own concepts, and it is only a good solution to be taught if you wish to dive a bit deeper. All of the hyperlinks for which might be on our web site. So, if you happen to simply go to amazingif.com, head to the podcast web page and one can find all the pieces there.
Sarah Ellis: This week, we’re speaking about saying sure, no and do not know. So, why do we predict that is necessary? Why do we predict it is a matter? Nicely once you say, “Sure”, you stretch your expertise, uncover new expertise and sometimes uncover potential.
So, there’s a number of causes for saying sure to issues. Whenever you say, “No”, it lets you make progress on priorities, so issues which might be most necessary to you, and it stops you I believe from getting pulled in a number of completely different instructions. And once we say we “Do not know”, it offers us time to assume. I additionally imagine it builds our confidence that you just need not know all the pieces to be good at your job. And I believe we practise, once we say, “I do not know”, being susceptible, and truly usually that builds belief between individuals. There’s an attention-grabbing article I learn not too long ago the place they stated, “I’d a lot relatively have a supervisor who says, ‘I do not know’, than a supervisor who tries to faux it or feels below strain”, you understand, to bluff or to make one thing up, which I believe would possibly really feel counterintuitive typically. Possibly as a supervisor you assume, “Oh, I ought to know the reply to that, so I’ve bought to say one thing”. However really, individuals would favor you to truly say, “Oh, I do not know”, or, “I’ve not considered that”. So, Helen, out of these three, saying sure, no, and do not know, I believe they’re all form of linked however distinct expertise, the flexibility to say these three various things, which one do you discover best and which do you discover hardest?
Helen Tupper: So, I am having a bit of personal giggle to myself, as a result of Sarah has finished the preparation for right now’s podcast off the again of a dialog we had final week, and he or she’s already written some assumptions concerning the one which she thinks that I’d discover hardest to do!
Sarah Ellis: I used to be making an attempt to be useful!
Helen Tupper: I do know, nevertheless it simply made me snort as a result of like, yeah, she’s completely proper. You understand when somebody simply is aware of you actually, rather well! So, I will begin with the one which I discovered hardest, as a result of we each understand it clearly, which is the saying no to issues. I form of have this want to do all the pieces and it looks like a waste of time if I do not, and so I actually battle to say no. I do not wish to miss out on issues or not be a part of issues, so yeah, I battle.
It isn’t my automated response to say no and I discover it fairly exhausting to do. I believe I am all proper. I imply, I believe the sure and the do not know, I am fairly good at each. I positively say sure to quite a lot of issues, however I believe I am additionally okay with the saying that I do not know. I believe I haven’t got a confidence gremlin about admitting that I’ve bought a information hole. It is simply not one thing that form of goes in my head. I positively see it when it impacts different individuals, however that is not one thing I believe will get in my method. To be sincere, my incapability to say no is so massive, it is so massive that I believe that is the factor for me to concentrate on! What about you?
Sarah Ellis: Clearly, the alternative to you.
Helen Tupper: Clearly, as all the time!
Sarah Ellis: I believe our common listeners will know. So, I discover it hardest to say sure, significantly to issues that scare me or really feel like I’d be doing one thing a bit completely different. I believe I’m good at making excuses about why not, like why should not I am going and do this factor; why should not I say sure? And doubtless since you’re good on the different one, as a result of I’ve bought a number of apply and I am good at being clear on when to say no and prioritising, you understand your ability in a single space can form of be unhelpful in one other? And I believe we have simply mainly described that nearly by being most likely superb at considered one of these, then it form of will get in your method perhaps it being nearly as good on the different. So, that is positively true for me.
A bit such as you, I am not anxious about saying I do not know. I believe a few of that may have additionally come from earlier in my profession, I spent most of my time as a generalist. So, I had a number of apply transferring in several departments and dealing in very differing types of groups.
So, I used to be by no means essentially the most knowledgeable particular person. And virtually by the point I then moved from being extra of a generalist to a specialist, which is how I form of see myself now, most likely greater than I ever have earlier than, as I’ve a deeper stage of data about most likely fewer issues, even now I do not ever put strain on myself to really feel like, “Oh, properly I ought to know all the pieces about profession improvement”. I am form of fortunate that that is come at some extent the place you’re feeling fairly assured in your self and your profession. So, I do not know whether or not there is a generalist/specialist hyperlink right here to the arrogance to say I do not know, nevertheless it actually form of struck a chord with me fascinated with it that method.
Helen Tupper: I positively have had instances in my profession when the do not know factor has most likely been larger. I used to be simply making an attempt to consider sure firms that I labored in the place the context was very knowledgeable, you understand, like individuals had what I’d name very exhausting skilled expertise.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, that is true.
Helen Tupper: So, at Capital One, individuals have been statisticians and numbers was the exhausting, skilled ability that individuals valued; or like at BP, quite a lot of these individuals have been engineers who’d labored within the organisation for a very long time. So, maybe after I was an outlier in an organisation that had a really exhausting ability set, I believe perhaps my do not know felt a bit extra exposing. So, I simply don’t desire individuals to assume, “Oh, no, I’ve bought that one and people two do not”. I believe Sarah and I’ve, I assume, the privilege now of working with one another, we have recognized one another for a really very long time and we attempt to practise this often to create a protected area for the do not is aware of to occur. However I do not assume I’ve all the time labored in that atmosphere.
Sarah Ellis: So, earlier than we get onto the hows, let’s simply pause on the whens. So, when would possibly you wish to say sure, no, or do not know? So, once you wish to improve your variety of yesses, I believe is when you find yourself feeling caught, if you happen to’re stalling, or perhaps specifically if you happen to’re on a little bit of an on-repeat sample. So, I learn a very good quote final week that stated, “Familiarity breeds complacency”.
Helen Tupper: Oh, that quote is so brutal!
Sarah Ellis: Harsh however truthful. It’s actually brutal. However you understand that sense of, when was the final time I did one thing for the primary time? What am I studying now that is new to me? All of us do want, I believe, on the proper moments, doses of sure in order that we will each do issues in a different way, so we do not get caught, but additionally we do not wish to restrict our studying to the place we’re right now. So, not solely can it form of transfer us out of that consolation or the consolation zone, if you wish to give it some thought in that method. I do assume you then put your self in new conditions the place instantly you would possibly see that you’ve expertise and strengths that you just simply did not respect. That is extra about exploring your potential, I believe.
Helen Tupper: Asking your self that query, “The place does familiarity result in complacency in my profession?” I believe it creates some actually attention-grabbing insights for individuals. I’d mirror on it afterwards.
Sarah Ellis: After which when to say no. I think this one, everybody will recognise, as a result of even when like me, you are okay with saying no, all of us really feel overwhelmed. All of us have these moments of being busy, simply being busy. I usually mirror on, I do know that is occurring to me after I get to the tip of per week and I really feel depleted however I can not let you know what I’ve finished, and I am all the time like, that does not really feel like a great place to be. And in addition, fascinated with it extra positively, if you happen to’ve bought one thing that is actually necessary that you just wish to progress, so you have bought a purpose or an goal, maybe you are engaged on a undertaking or a milestone that you really want to make occur, form of actually recognizing these moments the place saying no turns into much more necessary. So, if saying sure is much more necessary, maybe if you happen to do wish to actually form of stretch your self otherwise you’re feeling caught, saying no is much more necessary. Should you’re like, “I actually wish to make this factor occur, it is actually necessary to me, it is necessary to my profession, necessary to my organisation”, that is the second the place like, if there’s any second the place you must begin practising saying no, I believe it is then.
Helen Tupper: My alerts for saying no are after I begin saying sorry an excessive amount of, “I am sorry, I can not make it, I am sorry”, like simply after I’m on sorry overload, I am like, “That is since you’re not with the ability to do all the pieces you wish to”. Or after I’ve bought too many items of paper that I am carrying round with me, as a result of most of my items of paper are about lists. I take a look at my desk now and I can see quite a lot of items of paper that I’ve bought. There is a to-do record and a few concepts, there’s simply quite a lot of lists. And I do know that if I simply must hold carrying an ever-growing stack of paper round with me, it is as a result of I am not finishing issues that I’ve began, as a result of I have not stated no to sufficient. So, they’re my little very sensible, tangible alerts.
Sarah Ellis: You are simply including. It feels prefer it’s very additive. And when to say you do not know. So, I believe there’s a very primary one right here, which I do not know whether or not everybody will agree with really, as a result of I am certain you would discover some proof that typically it’s okay perhaps to faux it till you make it. However when you do not know, I do assume it’s higher to say you do not know than to try to make one thing up.
I believe typically individuals would possibly really feel strain to must give you a solution, however I believe that is a very exhausting factor to do. The opposite factor I used to be fascinated with this, I used to be reflecting on when else would you say you do not know, in these moments when you might have a niggle that one thing is not proper or one thing is not fairly clicking and you do not know why but? We’re all very used to that, “Do not share issues, share options”. However typically I believe you’re simply in that second considering, “I do not know why this isn’t working, however I do really feel prefer it is not working”. And I do assume it’s okay typically to sign that to say, “I am feeling a bit unsure about this. I am unsure but what to do or precisely what the reply is, however I do wish to discover it a bit extra, I do wish to give it some thought a bit extra”. Usually, these are moments the place you wish to assume a bit extra deeply otherwise you wish to form of pause, even when it is simply momentarily, as a substitute of giving your self that likelihood to consider one thing a bit extra deeply.
Helen Tupper: Having stated I’m good at this, I am now difficult myself. I used to be fascinated with, I did a podcast the opposite week. We have been on — I used to be on anyone else’s podcast they usually requested me —
Sarah Ellis: Outrageous! There are different podcasts?
Helen Tupper: Oh, did I not let you know I am auditioning with anyone else for the Wiggly Careers podcast?
Sarah Ellis: Oh my God, think about if that occurred!
Helen Tupper: No, no.
Sarah Ellis: Some individuals really name it Wiggly Careers. I am like, I imply are you able to not?
Helen Tupper: Wiggly Careers; somebody as soon as stated to me, Wobbly Jobs, and I used to be like, let’s simply stick to Squiggly, everybody! No, however I used to be on this podcast they usually have been asking me a query. The primary one I used to be like, “I am unsure”. The questions that they have been asking me, I am unsure that I had sensible solutions for, and I believe most likely what I ought to have stated, I do not know, I most likely ought to have simply known as it within the dialog and stated, “Oh, really, I do not assume I’ve bought sufficient experience in that space to provide your listeners a very good reply to that, so we could transfer on?” I ought to have stated that, however are you aware what, I did not.
I believe I attempted to reply it within the movement of the dialog, and I’ve form of mirrored on it afterwards and thought, “I do not assume what I stated was that clear or compelling or helpful, so then why say it?” However what I did not say, and what we’re advocating for, is I ought to have stated among the issues that we will come on to within the concepts for motion in a minute. However I believe typically the strain of a state of affairs, that was a podcast dialog, nevertheless it may have been a presentation, you understand, when somebody asks you a query; typically that form of strain of a state of affairs can typically make you simply have an effect on your potential to say the yesses, the nos and the do not is aware of. So, I get it. If anybody else is listening going, “Sure, that is what occurs to me”, I get it as a result of it did occur to me as properly the opposite week.
Sarah Ellis: So, we’re not going to enter the how. We’ll begin with sure, then we will discuss no, then we will discuss do not know. And within the spirit of practising, we’re going to lead on the one which we’re not nearly as good at. So, I’ll discuss some concepts for motion on saying sure, after which Helen can coach me by means of it. If I miss something, Helen’s then going to speak about how she’s going to say no extra usually —
Helen Tupper: That was directed!
Sarah Ellis: — and I’ll get pleasure from that second. After which collectively, we’ll hopefully assist with methods to say I do not know. So, concept for motion one on sure is consider a “sure, if”. So, this lets you give a considerate sure that units you up for fulfillment. And so, typically I believe we do not say sure as a result of we aren’t certain how we will make it occur or we get nervous concerning the sensible realities of the sure. It jogs my memory of when Helen was chatting with Cal Newport the opposite week for the Ask the Skilled episode, he talks about primarily each sure does have an administrative burden that comes with it; there’s all the time rather a lot to do with each time you say sure. And so usually, I believe typically I ought to say sure to issues however I do get nervous about that. I will assume, “Oh, I am simply unsure”.
After which my default really is to say no, although perhaps I may have discovered rather a lot from saying sure. So, “sure, if” will get you to simply assume by means of simply the form of implications of the sure to extend your confidence. So, we have got three sure ifs for you simply to convey this to life. So, it is perhaps sure, if there’s another person concerned, so that is form of a individuals sure. So, “Yeah, I would actually prefer to become involved in that occasion, if I may work alongside with somebody from the workforce or a unique workforce”. So, it is a sure if there’s another person, which I believe is a great factor to do. The second sure is a time one, or a time and place one, so sure if there is a very clear timescale to one thing. So, “Actually glad to volunteer for that undertaking, if we will assessment the way it’s working on the finish of August”. So, you are saying sure if the timescale could be very clear. Then the ultimate “sure, if” is one thing else stops. So, that is being very clear on priorities, which I believe most likely pertains to each this and once we discuss nos. However this one would possibly sound like, “Yeah, I would be actually glad to become involved in that piece of labor, if I can pause undertaking B within the meantime, we will come again to it”. So, I believe it’s a considerate sure, it is a thought-through sure, and I similar to this concept of going individuals, place, priorities. It is form of a “sure if”, and that simply lets you then I believe virtually be ok with saying the sure, as a result of I believe you’re feeling such as you’re like, “I am saying sure in the best method for the best causes, and in addition with the best issues round me”. I discover that reassuring.
Helen Tupper: I prefer it. I really assume at the same time as anyone who likes saying sure, usually my sure comes from a spot of form of vitality and enthusiasm however not all the time effectiveness. So, I believe your “sure, if”, I believe it helps to make, yeah, only a extra form of efficient method of opting into issues. I’d adapt it too.
Sarah Ellis: After which the second is the one that actually counts for me, as a result of I am really okay at that first one. However the second, the rationale I do not say sure could be as a result of I’d be scared primarily. I’d assume, and Helen and I have been speaking about this final week, about how we typically do not do issues simply because we predict, “I simply can’t be bothered”. And truly, it is a bit of little bit of laziness and it is a bit of little bit of, “It will be simpler to not”. So right here, we try to say sure once you most likely wish to say no. So I used to be like, “Proper, okay, what helps me right here?” as a result of typically I do do that. And that is the place relatively than saying “sure, if”, concept for motion two is “sure, as a result of”. So right here, our job to do is to speak ourselves in to saying sure.
So, in case you are like me and also you’re naturally fairly vital, I can give you all the explanations to say, “No, no thanks”, mainly, relatively than, “Sure, as a result of, it is like, “No, no thanks for all of those superb causes”. The factor that I do is I begin the opposite method round. So, I form of begin from the opposites, from the upsides, “Do I wish to go to that occasion?” I imply the reply to that, no matter what it’s, is just about all the time, “No, thanks.”
But when I give it some thought in a different way, if I am like, “Sure, as a result of I get to fulfill individuals I’ve not met earlier than, or some new weak ties or some distant ties, and truly it is a great way of bringing individuals collectively”; “Sure, as a result of really I am within the content material of what is going on to be talked about at that occasion, so there’s form of a studying motivation for me”; and perhaps it is simply because I can not bear in mind the final time I did one thing for the primary time. So instantly, I am going, “Three yesses which might be nudging me in the direction of form of the best reply”. And I did it not too long ago really, the place we had an award that we have been getting into, and once more, very easy to say no since you’re similar to, “I can not make the area within the week, not bought a great deal of vitality for it”. Whereas, I then did the “sure, as a result of”, and I assumed, “Sure to getting into that award, since you all the time be taught from the method of getting into for awards”, I knew that from form of previous expertise; “Sure, as a result of if you happen to do win, it is an opportunity to share Squiggly with extra individuals”, so it is actually aligned to a purpose that we have; and, “Sure, as a result of it is a chance to construct new relationships”. And I used to be like, it is form of that tipping level, and that will get me over the road of claiming sure. And you do not have to do it on a regular basis, however if you happen to by no means say sure, you do miss out. So, there you go, that works for me.
Helen Tupper: I like them, and I can hear them. Simply understanding you, I really feel like they’re very sensible yesses. Again to the, “I simply say sure with vitality”, I really feel like really there’s the thought-through, the considerate, and the thought of nature of that’s, it’s extremely form of including you into the sure, which I like. So, let’s transfer on to the nos, for anyone who already finds yesses very straightforward and would possibly must say no a bit of bit extra. We have now lined this as a subject really on a podcast, nevertheless it was some time again. It was again in episode 106, and we’re properly into episode 400 now.
So, we have got some new concepts about methods to say no. However if you happen to’re actually struggling, perhaps hear again to that one too. So, three concepts. Thought primary is a quick filter. So, this offers you just a few inquiries to ask your self as a way to be, I assume, clear and assured about what you would possibly must say no to. So, the primary bit is assessing the state of affairs that you just’re in.
So, one, “Do I perceive the ask?” So, what’s it, when does it must be finished by, why does it must be finished? Quantity two, “Do I imagine we should always do that?” So, not simply somebody’s wanting me to do it, however do I personally imagine that is the best factor to do? And that hyperlinks to query quantity three, “Do I imagine I’m the best particular person to do it?” Is it the best factor? Am I the best particular person? After which quantity 4, which is the one which I by no means actually ask myself, “Do I’ve time to make it occur?” I form of imagine in magic time, which does not really exist. And I believe if I really stated, “Do I’ve time to make this occur?” I’d be a bit extra sensible about what I say sure and must say no to. So, these first 4 questions provide you with a quick filter on whether or not that is one thing within the sure or the no class. Even when it does fall into the no class, as a result of perhaps you are not the best particular person or perhaps you have not bought the time to make it occur, it does not all the time must be an automated no.
It might be a, “Not now”, since you’ve bought one thing else on; it might be a, “Not until”, like “there is a workforce of individuals that may work with me, or I do it with somebody who’s an knowledgeable within the areas I am not”; or it is perhaps a not ever, really, it is perhaps a, “No, I do not ever assume this needs to be the best factor”. I believe typically the not ever, whether or not you phrase it like that or not, as much as you, however I do typically assume you have to be clear when it is a no, significantly if in your head it is a not ever, I believe it’s higher to be clear about that. So, I typically have fudged my nos and all that occurs, like, so a fudged no, I will be like, “Oh, sorry, a bit busy in the intervening time, however thanks for the ask”. And all that occurs is the ask comes again round in three months and you then’re like, “No, I am nonetheless a bit busy”. And it will have been so significantly better to say, “Oh, I do not assume I am the best particular person to do that, however actually want you better of luck with it. I believe it is an incredible undertaking, however not one I could be concerned in”. That’s me saying not ever in a Helen form of method and it is significantly better than doing the fudgy no.
Sarah Ellis: I agree and I believe that is the place I’ve positively fallen into that entice up to now, since you assume it is kinder perhaps to say, “Oh, you understand –” however I believe usually, I am so near with the ability to say no, after which I am, “However be happy to get again in contact”. And also you’re similar to, “No, do not get again in contact, not with precisely the identical masks, as a result of it is a no now and it will be a no once more”, and it is simply having that confidence, is not it, to know that it’s okay to say no. And I suppose I’ve bought extra used to receiving these from different individuals, which I believe has helped me to get higher at them, significantly fascinated with the podcast.
We ask individuals to come back on the podcast who say no, or typically simply do not even reply. So, virtually you simply get a tiny bit extra resilient, but additionally I believe I’ve seen and noticed how individuals say no in a method that I actually respect. And I believe that is helpful to recollect, that really you’ll be able to say no and nonetheless be sort. And if somebody is a good particular person, they may respect that no. All people will get that individuals must make selections in how they spend their time. And I believe we additionally typically, I believe perhaps your ego can get in the way in which a bit right here, since you typically assume, if somebody’s requested you one thing, that they’ve solely requested you; and more often than not, individuals haven’t solely requested you, otherwise you’re not the one particular person. So, somebody’s world just isn’t going to fall down if you cannot do this factor. And I believe that is additionally typically fairly helpful to recollect. I believe I’ve had examples of that, the place then I realise I’ve stated no to one thing after which they’ve most likely requested like 15 different individuals and you are like, “Oh, yeah, it is completely advantageous, it is completely advantageous to say no”.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, I agree. You virtually really feel so responsible that you just get a bit like, “Oh, but when I say no, then what are they going to do?” They usually’re like, “In all probability ask another person”!
Sarah Ellis: Be advantageous.
Helen Tupper: Yeah, be advantageous.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, be completely advantageous.
Helen Tupper: Recover from your self!
Sarah Ellis: Get somebody higher!
Helen Tupper: Yeah, all that! Thought for motion two is to supply another, and I believe that is what I’ve been doing extra of late. So, I do battle with the flat out no, it does not fairly really feel like me, however then I do wish to create readability that I can not be concerned or do one thing by a sure date or no matter. So, I discover the providing another fairly a helpful factor. So, for instance, “No, I can not do this assembly however I can ship you a voice notice with my ideas”. I have been doing that rather a lot.
I get quite a lot of asks for conversations on LinkedIn. Lots of people message me, and a few individuals introduce me to different individuals with the ask, “Oh, Helen, here is Mick, thought you would discuss to him about this”. And I am like, “No, I have not, I really have not bought the time to do that in the intervening time”, after which I really feel actually awkward. So, what I say as a substitute is, “No, I can not make the assembly, however I can ship you a voice notice”. And I discover {that a} very fast method that I may also help that then does not form of have the identical affect in what I am making an attempt to do on different days. Or, “No, I can not work on that undertaking, however I can ship you some insights and hyperlinks that may assist whoever picks it up”. I can usually do this in a short time. Or, “No, I can not get that finished by the tip of the week, however I can ship you one thing I’ve created earlier than that you would use as a substitute. So, these are — I discover myself doing that rather a lot. And so long as my various does not take quite a lot of time, I discover that that works for me. You understand, if I am simply changing their ask with one thing that takes a bit extra time, that is not likely a win in me saying no. However I’ve been making an attempt to do these types of options as fast as I can.
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, what’s good about these examples is you are both saving time otherwise you’re being versatile together with your time. So, I used to be simply considering really, once you described that first one, I’ve stated sure to a few conferences that I most likely, in hindsight, I take a look at them and assume, “Nicely, I ought to have stated no”, however I stated sure as a result of, prefer to your level, I wished to be useful. And I do all the time assume however individuals actually helped us and also you’re all the time making an attempt to do the identical.
But when I had simply stated, “Nicely, relatively than a gathering, if you happen to ship me your questions, I’ll reply with a voice notice”. That works method higher for me when it comes to, we’re not going to collaborate calendars and discover diary time. Additionally, it implies that in the event that they’re actually severe, they may ship you questions as a result of they have them. And if they are not, then in the event that they’re simply form of getting into into the dialog as a result of they may as properly, once more that is most likely not going to be that helpful for you or for them. Once more, although I’d say I am naturally okay at saying no, already I can spot, I am like, “Oh, however I might be even higher”. And it is now making me assume I actually remorse saying sure to these issues!
Helen Tupper: Dammit! And the third concept for motion with the nos, and once more I am discovering this one straightforward in the intervening time, so I really feel like I’m engaged on this, is to current your priorities however with satisfaction. So, they are not like this, I do not know, this factor that has no emotion connected to them. So, for instance I’ve needed to say no to some issues in the intervening time as a result of Sarah and I are engaged on writing our third e-book, which I do not assume we’re purported to be speaking about but, however I’ll.
Sarah Ellis: But it surely’s coming.
Helen Tupper: But it surely’s coming and we’re engaged on it. And so, a few individuals have requested me to be concerned in sure issues and I’ve needed to say no as a result of we’re defending a lot time to jot down the e-book. And I am actually proud that we’re writing that and I am actually enthusiastic about what we’re creating, and after I say, “I am actually sorry I can not make that assembly, or become involved in that undertaking in the intervening time, as a result of we’re writing our e-book and we wish to make progress on it and we’re working in the direction of this date, and it is one thing that we’re actually wanting ahead to”, I simply get individuals going, “Oh, I utterly get it, I perceive”.
And I believe it is as a result of I do not simply say, “No, I am writing a e-book”, however I put a little bit of emotion into it as properly, like I’m actually happy with what we’re creating. And that, I believe, helps individuals to know why I am saying no. Or one other one which I’ve talked about earlier than is, I am a part of this neighborhood known as EY’s Successful Ladies. And although the neighborhood continues after the yr that you just’re form of appointed considered one of these Successful Ladies, you continue to wish to get essentially the most out of it through the yr. And so, I’ve stated no to some issues to say, “I am a part of a programme, there’s these dates which might be a part of it this yr that I actually wish to attend as a result of it is a part of my yr’s commitments to do this”, and instantly individuals have extra understanding for it, and I am happy with being a part of that neighborhood. So, I believe know what your priorities are, current them with satisfaction when there is a state of affairs the place you must say no, could be my concept for motion there.
Sarah Ellis: Additionally, what’s helpful about that I believe most likely significantly for you is, when individuals know you properly, they are going to be used to you as a “can do, make it occur, say it sure” particular person. So, if you happen to instantly simply began going, “Nicely, no, I can not come to that, or I am struggling to find time for that”, in a form of colder method, it does not really feel such as you. And I believe typically the rationale individuals battle with these is, okay, however I’ve nonetheless bought to do it in my method and with my phrases.
And I believe as you are describing these, and I believe as I used to be describing the yesses, we have each form of give you our personal system that really most likely feels very private. It is like, properly, that is the way you described it. I got here up with yesses in fairly a form of considerate and thought of and reflective method, as a result of that is my character.
You have labored out, properly, how are you going to say no, however with vitality, and in a method that displays your feelings and form of nonetheless feels good for you? So, all people listening, you will have your individual method. However I believe that’s price understanding, you understand, the place’s your place to begin; after which what does this appear to be for you, so that you just nonetheless obtain the result, the saying no, saying do not know, saying sure, however with out shedding your self, as a result of that does not really feel good, nobody likes that sense of, “I am having to virtually fake to be somebody I am not to have the ability to do that properly”. So, final, saying do not know, I reckon this is perhaps a confidence gremlin for fairly lots of people listening, as a result of I hear individuals in our workshops share they do not like being placed on the spot. So, this isn’t about typically not understanding, due to course there’s all the time a great deal of stuff that all of us do not know, that is saying you do not know very particularly. So, you would be having a one-to-one together with your supervisor, you is perhaps in a workforce assembly, otherwise you would possibly even simply be getting a message on Groups or on Slack, and your response is you are considering, “Nicely, I do not know, however how do I say I do not know?”
So, that is tough, and I believe it does take confidence and self-belief. And as Helen described firstly, your context will make a distinction. Should you’re in a high-trust workforce, I believe saying, “I do not know”, is far, a lot simpler than if you happen to’re in a low-trust workforce the place you assume, “Nicely, I am unsure what is going on to occur if I say I do not know”. So, only a form of slight caveat of, relying in your atmosphere, you most likely will wish to adapt your strategy a bit of bit and be delicate to that state of affairs. Do not put your self in such a susceptible place that you’ll make your self really feel worse.
So, concept for motion one is, use your do not is aware of to ask for assist. And I believe usually the vulnerability of claiming you do not know is a chance for assist, sounding boards, to get a steer from different individuals, or simply say, “I want some assist”, or to get a perspective. So, this would possibly sound a bit like, “I am unsure who to contain on this undertaking. Who would you advocate I discuss to so I can be taught extra?” So, you are saying, “I do not know”, “I do not know who to contain on this undertaking, however are you able to assist me with who that is perhaps?” Otherwise you would possibly say, “In the intervening time, I am not clear what success seems like for this piece of labor. What have you ever seen work properly earlier than?” So once more, the one factor I used to be considering after I was writing these is I do not wish to reverse the highlight, so, “I am placed on the spot; what I am now going to do is put you on the spot”, as a result of that feels a bit harsh! So, you are attempting to do that in a form of encouraging method.
Helen Tupper: Deflect your do not is aware of!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, I used to be like, “Okay, we simply must be a bit cautious about that”. You may simply say, “I do not know the reply to that query, however I’ve bought just a few ideas that I would respect your perspective on”. That is one thing I’d positively say. So, you’ll be able to nonetheless have concepts and you may nonetheless have ideas, however I believe it’s okay to first acknowledge that you do not know the reply to a query. I’d all the time warning, I believe, ignoring the query and simply saying one thing completely different, or answering a unique query, as a result of I believe individuals can see by means of that and I believe which you could get caught out your self if you happen to attempt to do this.
Helen Tupper: I really feel that is perhaps recommendation that some politicians miss, you understand after they get a query, they form of undergo it? We’ll go away politics to at least one facet; that is most likely not our podcast.
Sarah Ellis: And if anyone says one thing the place you simply assume, you understand if it throws you and also you simply assume, “I do not know as a result of I’ve by no means had that thought earlier than”, and this has positively occurred to me, simply saying, “Oh, I hadn’t thought of that, that sounds actually useful. How may you think about that working? Or have you ever seen that working some other place?” Once more, you’re simply going, “I hadn’t thought of that”.
And if anyone has requested you a query round one thing the place you simply go, properly, that is new information to you, that is only a new thought you could not have had, they’re most likely speaking about it as a result of they’ve seen it work properly, or they’ve seen it of their groups. So, primarily, you simply want a bit of bit extra context. I believe right here, what you are attempting to do is present a mix of curiosity, so that you’re form of going, “Nicely, inform me extra”, primarily, and a little bit of vulnerability about going, “Okay, properly I do not know, so are you able to assist me transfer from do not know to know? Are you able to assist me as a part of that course of?” And I reckon the vast majority of persons are flattered by this, since you’re primarily asking for his or her recommendation. That is all we’re doing on this second goes, “Oh, Helen, I hadn’t even considered it that method. How do you assume I’d work? “And Helen’s going, “Okay, so she’s ready to confess she’d not considered it, and he or she’s proven that she’s genuinely curious about what I believe and what I’ve bought to say”. I believe all of the individuals you wish to work with would reply properly to that. I believe since you’ve finished the upfront acknowledgement, which I believe is necessary, you have not simply gone straight to, “Nicely, you inform me”, as a result of that might really feel a bit overly aggressive.
Sarah Ellis: I believe Sarah’s do not know questions are a very, actually good motive to obtain the PodSheet, as a result of I believe they’re actually useful. I do know so many individuals get fearful of asking for assist, however you have not talked about assist in any of these questions and it will result in the identical final result for individuals. So, positively, if you have not managed to jot down them down, don’t be concerned as a result of it is within the PodSheet. Thought for motion quantity two, once you wish to say you do not know nevertheless it feels exhausting perhaps to do, is to reframe your language from understanding to studying. So, this is able to sound like, for example Sarah’s asking me a query and I believe, “I wish to say I do not know, however that feels too exhausting to do”. As a substitute, a learning-based response would sound extra like, “Okay, that is actually attention-grabbing.
Nicely, it is an space that I am studying extra about in the intervening time, so let me come again to you”. Or, “Okay, yeah, it’s an space the place I’ve form of bought a bit extra to be taught, nevertheless it’s prime of my precedence”, so simply not even getting that phrase “do not know”. If that feels too tough, simply get the phrase “no” out of your thoughts and reframe it to studying, and it is usually one thing that simply sounds extra energetic, you’ll be able to talk it in a really proactive method, “I am actively studying about this in the intervening time, it is prime of my studying record”, or no matter that may sound like for you, however you may need extra confidence and connection to the phrase “studying” than you do the phrase “understanding”. I usually really feel like if I take advantage of the phrase understanding, properly I can by no means know sufficient, and I am by no means an knowledgeable sufficient in an space, and that may get in my method. However simply saying, “Nicely, I am studying about it, it is prime of my studying record”, that simply feels simpler for me to do. And if it is simpler so that you can do, it will really feel, you understand in these conditions the place you get requested questions, it hopefully will simply make you only a bit extra assured about saying it.
Sarah Ellis: After which concept for motion three is transferring from do not know to knowns out loud. Now, I believe that is most likely an concept that works higher in a one-to-one setting relatively than in actually massive teams, as a result of in any other case it may most likely be a little bit of a free-for-all and maybe fairly tough to handle. However I do assume it’s okay, this might be a peer-to-peer dialog, this might be a dialog with anyone in a unique workforce who maybe has finished one thing related, this might be a dialog together with your supervisor. And also you’re having that dialog they usually’ve requested you a query the place you simply assume, “Yeah, I simply do not, I simply hadn’t considered that”. Or what would usually run by means of my head is, “I simply do not know the place I would begin with it”.
You are form of going, “Oh, I do not even know what transferring from do not know to know seems likes. And I believe you’ll be able to neatly contain individuals in that means of transferring from do not know to knowns. So, what you would do at that time is say to anyone, “I’ve not finished this earlier than”, and I’ve labored for anyone who used to say that to me fairly regularly, and I actually appreciated it. I by no means thought, “Oh, he should not know what he is doing”, I all the time simply thought, “Oh, okay, that is attention-grabbing, he isn’t finished it earlier than”. After which he did this with me. He’d be like, “Oh, I’ve not finished this earlier than. Lets work out collectively how we get began?” after which I would be actually flattered. I would be like, “Sure, let’s work out collectively how we get began”. And so primarily, then we have been collectively co-creating transferring from do not know to at the very least some knowns.
But it surely was extra concerning the course of, like how are we going to maneuver to get into these knowns? So, who ought to we go to speak to; what do we all know based mostly on what we have finished earlier than; what can we each simply assume; what are our preliminary both assumptions, or what are we imagining it’d appear to be? I believe the rationale this finally ends up being so compelling is, typically different individuals do not know as a lot as you think about. So, typically you could be like, “Oh, okay, it is not like all people else has bought the complete image or bought all of this already found out”. But additionally, doing a few of your transferring from do not know to knowns out loud, form of sharing that course of, I believe will get you quite a lot of buy-in since you’re bringing somebody with you. It is very basic “contain, do not remedy”. And truly, this concept actually got here from working with Helen, who does the vast majority of her considering out loud. And I spent numerous time with Helen final week. And also you would possibly assume, “Absolutely you all the time spend quite a lot of time with Helen?” however we really do not.
Helen Tupper: She actively avoids me more often than not.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah! We did discuss assembly up once more, and also you have been like, “Was that too frequent for you?” You really stated these phrases to me! And I used to be like, “Oh, gosh!”
Helen Tupper: It’s empathy.
Sarah Ellis: However I usually assume that is one thing I see you do. I believe that is typically the way you get from, you will be like, “Hmm, do not know”, and you then simply begin to have this sort of dialog. And I really feel it is not likely about constructing higher, we frequently discuss how can we construct higher collectively, it is simply constructing one thing. As a result of in the intervening time you are, that is about usually going from nothing, we simply do not know, to one thing, and I really feel such as you by no means go away a dialog with out having bought to at the very least one thing. As a result of normally by the tip of that dialog, you cease listening to me and also you’re doing the actions, you are like proper, “Yeah, proper, I’ll go and discuss to that particular person, I’ll write this down”, and you’ve got gone from not understanding to understanding in a really brief area of time, however really in a method that creates quite a lot of readability, quite a lot of confidence, and a few momentum. So, we have been engaged on some issues from scratch final week the place there was rather a lot that you just and I did not know, and we have been like, “Nicely, we do not know if this may work”.
And your factor goes, “Nicely, how would we work out if it will work? What would we have to do?” and also you begin moving into that course of. So, I believe this most likely looks like a barely completely different strategy to do not is aware of, however you’re nonetheless saying it and you then’re involving somebody. I would virtually wish to take into consideration, and I believe the rationale this works properly with us is clearly we all know one another and work collectively properly, who might be that don’t-know associate for you? You understand, somebody who fairly enjoys that means of form of having a play and simply creating, and does not really feel daunted by do not know. Like, I do not assume you are daunted by do not know and I believe that actually helps. I believe typically I’d be extra daunted than you’d be in that second.
I would be like, “Oh, there’s a lot we do not know”. You’ll simply be like, “However what do we have to do?” since you’re such a doer. You are like, “It does not matter that we do not know. What issues is that we begin doing”, and it is a very form of learning-by-doing strategy.
Helen Tupper: I believe typically with this sort of sure, no and do not know, in addition to having like a don’t-know associate, I believe having a yes-no reverse is sort of helpful, you understand in your profession neighborhood, as a result of we simply caught collectively as these two opposites in fairly a useful method. However I believe if you happen to may search for an reverse, anyone who’s naturally good on the one that you just’re not, I believe you’ll be able to be taught an terrible lot from one another. I be taught rather a lot from how Sarah says no, and the way she says no in conferences, “Nicely, no, I am unsure we should always do this” after which I will be like, “Oh, attention-grabbing, she’s courageous sufficient to do this after I most likely would not”. Or she’s even simply stopped to assume that we should always say no, as a result of she’s finished that evaluation in her head and I’ve simply rushed into sure.
So, both observing or really very deliberately partnering in a profession improvement relationship with anyone who’s your reverse I believe is a very efficient solution to study this as properly.
Sarah Ellis: So, all of the insights from right now’s episode are within the PodSheet, or if you would like one thing even shorter, try the PodNotes, the place we have a tendency to simply have, say, the highest three concepts for motion or the issues that we predict are most helpful to share at a look. However we hope this has been helpful for saying sure, no, do not know.
Tell us the way you get on, and if you happen to ever have any concepts for podcast subjects that you just’d like us to speak about, you’ll be able to e-mail us at any time. We’re helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com. However that is all the pieces for this week. Thanks a lot for listening and we’ll be again with you once more quickly. Bye for now.
Helen Tupper: Bye everybody.
