Ask the knowledgeable: Pausing | Wonderful If

00:00:00: Introduction

00:01:36: Introducing Rob

00:02:02: Obstacles to pausing

00:02:52: Plastic pausing

00:05:18: Impression of a reluctance to pause

00:09:17: Busy is the brand new lazy

00:11:26: Rob’s experiences of pausing

00:13:56: Pausing between work and residential

00:17:17: The scanner train

00:23:12: Rob’s pausing recommendation

00:25:51: Remaining ideas

Sarah Ellis: Hello, I am Sarah and that is the Squiggly Careers podcast.  Immediately is one among our Ask the Skilled episodes and you are going to hear me in dialog with Robert Poynton, who’s the creator of a guide referred to as Do Pause. 

Collectively, we’ll be speaking about how punctuating your days with very quick pauses, and considering actually virtually about what it means to create some house, can really improve our efficiency and enhance our impression and our sustainability.  In our Squiggly Careers, the place we all know we’ll be working for longer and we need to hold going and continue to grow, I feel pausing is a very necessary a part of that.  It is really one thing I actually care about, and care about having the ability to do it in a approach that works for everybody, whether or not you are somebody who has to commute lots, whether or not you are somebody who’s working at house, how will we make it possible for we create a approach of working which means it really works for you and works on your work as properly? So, Robert is good, he is actually insightful, filled with helpful concepts.  

He is undoubtedly practised what he is preached, in addition to sharing his phrases of knowledge with us as properly.  So, I hope you benefit from the dialog and I hope it prompts you to consider possibly how pausing might work in your day.  And possibly it is one thing you even need to take into consideration as we head into 2025 and we begin to set some studying objectives for subsequent yr.  So, I will be again on the finish to say bye, however for now I hope you benefit from the dialog. Rob, welcome to the Squiggly Careers podcast.  I am actually wanting ahead to our dialog collectively right now.

Robert Poynton: Me too, Sarah.  Thanks very a lot for having me.

Sarah Ellis: So we’re speaking about pausing right now, and I wished to start out with what will get in the way in which.  Out of your work with individuals and from sharing your guide with individuals all the world over, we had been speaking about how really it has been translated into totally different international locations, into totally different cultures, what stops us from pausing mostly, do you observe?

Robert Poynton: Nicely the straightforward reply to that’s the type of on a regular basis insistence of day by day life, and a budget reply, for those who like, is expertise.  However really, I feel these are signs.  I feel the deeper trigger that stops us can be a type of perception system, a perception that extra is all the time extra; a perception that to get on, you need to go additional sooner; a perception that stopping is someway harmful or precarious.  So, I feel it is that type of nest of beliefs that are bolstered and which do emerge from a type of fashionable technological society that actually make it troublesome for us to pause.  And what’s attention-grabbing about that’s, it’s a perception system so it is one thing you’ll be able to change or shift or query, a mindset for those who favor.  In the event you simply type of take the outdated saying, “Extra haste, much less velocity”, that may remind you that that is an outdated concept, that individuals have all the time identified the worth of stopping.

Sarah Ellis: One of many issues that actually struck me as I used to be studying your work is you described the pause as a ‘plastic idea’, this concept of it is fairly elastic and pauses can feel and appear very totally different.  I generally assume after we are imagining pausing, we predict it must be a very radical rethink or redo of how we’re working, whereas I felt such as you had been encouraging us to discover pausing in plenty of alternative ways.  Maybe you would carry that to life for us just a little bit, so if you had been eager about this plastic side of pausing, what would possibly that imply?

Robert Poynton: There are various alternative ways you’ll be able to pause, many various durations of pause.  So, a pause is likely to be time to take a breath earlier than you enter a room or choose up a cellphone.  And that may act as a reset, act as a type of clearing, even a brief house of time.  It could possibly be the other excessive, it could possibly be a yr off, like Stefan Sagmeister, the designer, who closes his enterprise down for a complete yr, not simply to take a break or have a relaxation however to hunt new sources of inspiration, which for anyone extremely inventive is essential. 

So in his case, he’ll journey, he’ll go totally different locations, he’ll make himself topic to different type of stimuli; and all the pieces in between.  So, all the pieces between a second on a threshold and a complete yr’s sabbatical.  And so, that affords us the possibility to consider how do any of us individually, for what we’d like, need to punctuate our time?  Can we need to cease for only a breath?  Can we need to have a screen-free Saturday?  Can we need to not do emails after 8.00 at evening? 

There’s any variety of variations that you could discover. I feel additionally to consider this not as a formulation, it isn’t even that you’ve a person formulation, it’s extremely a lot proper right here, proper now, in the midst of no matter you are in, what could be a helpful approach to simply break it up in type of attention-grabbing ways in which over time?  So, you would possibly, I do not know, screen-free Saturday is likely to be a observe you undertake, and that may then put on skinny or put on out, it may not be just right for you anymore, you would possibly want one thing else.  So actually, it is an invite to always type of reassess your relationship with time and to assume that point isn’t a treadmill, we’re not machines, it isn’t about extra, extra, extra and never each unit of time is value the identical.  So, just a little pause, you would possibly assume, “What is the level of doing two minutes?”  Nicely, you would be shocked.  So, do not underestimate how quick a time, within the type of a pause, will be extremely helpful and highly effective.

Sarah Ellis: And one of many issues that caught out to me is that generally I feel we’re reluctant to pause as a result of we predict it may make us much less productive.  We nearly do not give ourselves permission to pause as a result of we’re like, “Nicely, I have to hold going”.  And you utilize this beautiful phrase the place you mentioned, “Pausing would not sluggish us down, it may really make issues circulate sooner”, and I actually appreciated this concept of flowing sooner, as a result of I feel you gave an instance in a guide the place you talked about for those who pause a machine, it does utterly cease; whereas really, if we pause, we’re not stopping, we’re really simply switching our consideration and our focus to one thing totally different, a pause for thought, a pause to ask a special type of query, a pause to simply stroll for 3 minutes to stroll and assume.

So, when individuals are eager about, “Why ought to I care?  What is the payoff for pausing?” have you ever observed that when individuals begin to do that, they really see the type of impression when it comes to how they really feel at work, but additionally the outcomes of the standard of their work maybe?

Robert Poynton: Yeah, I imply I feel that is completely, crushingly apparent for those who have a look at the world round you.  The absence of pause is kind of actually killing individuals.  It is what results in burnout, the concept that we must always push on, do extra, by no means let up, be all the time on.  That’s each inhuman and unimaginable and it’ll degrade the standard of what you are doing. 

If you’re drained, you do not assume as clearly for those who’re doing a considering job.  In the event you’re doing a bodily job of labor, if you’re drained you get clumsy, you make errors.  So, I feel it is evident that within the absence, and the emotional- and physical- and stress-related value of that by no means pausing is big. The opposite factor that is actually necessary right here is there is a purpose why in drugs in subject hospitals within the nineteenth century, they invented triage.  So triage, for people who aren’t conversant in that time period, is a French phrase, and it implies that triage is what you do when injured troopers are coming right into a subject hospital and also you spend a while not treating them.  You spend a while along with your restricted sources checking who wants therapy most urgently.  And when you try this, individuals will undergo, possibly even within the case of the sector hospital, die.  However total, as soon as you’ve got taken an evaluation of who to deal with first, it is far more efficient.  Within the language you are utilizing, far more productive. 

So, for those who’re busy, busy doing, doing, doing, how are you aware that what you are doing, for those who by no means cease to query it, is value doing, or is the very best factor to do, or that the circumstances have not modified?  In the event you by no means search for, you is likely to be going the fallacious approach. So, the price of not pausing is legion, and as we had been saying earlier than, the advantage of pausing is, it doesn’t suggest stopping altogether, it simply means creating just a little parenthesis, just a little interregnum, a second of reflection or house the place different stimuli, different questions, different instructions, different concepts can happen to you. Or, you’ll be able to join with different individuals who would possibly provide these concepts or questions.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, as a result of one of many phrases that you simply speak about within the guide is that this type of, all of us say we’re busy, we anticipate individuals to reply to the way you’re doing with busy, and also you type of provoke us to contemplate whether or not really that is probably a bit lazy.  And really, I do agree, as a result of I feel if we’re simply all the time busy doing the identical issues in the identical approach, you are very a lot sticking with the established order, and that’s hardly ever what we’d like.

Robert Poynton: In the event you take the analogy of media, not all media, you understand, social media however broadcast media as properly, you’ll be able to by no means devour all of it, you’ll be able to by no means learn all the pieces, you’ll be able to by no means do something.  And the identical is true with all of the duties we might do for ourselves or we might consider.  It is a lot, a lot faster to jot down a listing or purchase a guide than it’s to truly do the factor on the checklist or to learn the guide.  And so, we’re deluged, we would be overwhelmed if we actually tried to do all the pieces.  So, for those who do not pause to contemplate what your priorities are, you are still setting priorities as a result of you’ll be able to’t do all the pieces, you are simply not doing it very thoughtfully.  

You are being deluged by these things and doing what’s most at hand. The phrase I am utilizing is, “Busy is the brand new lazy”.  And what I imply by that isn’t that you simply’re not making effort however, “Busy is the brand new lazy”, means it is lazy considering.  You are not consciously selecting to evaluate what wants doing most, what wants doing first, what possibly would not want doing otherwise you’re doing for simply behavior or inertia that does not really want doing any extra, what you would let go of.  You realize, you’ll be able to’t do all of it.  So, a way or one other, you’ve got obtained to select.

Sarah Ellis: And I feel it was the World Well being Organisation the place you reference this within the guide, round this concept of velocity bumps, which I appreciated, as a result of I feel generally bodily objects remind us to behave in a sure approach.  One of many inspirations I took from the guide was, what velocity bumps might I add into my day in a ritual-rhythm-type approach, that simply type of pressured me to decelerate.  As a result of I suppose I feel, “Oh, a velocity bump forces you to decelerate”, you type of haven’t any alternative except you need to wreck your automotive. 

And so, really I used to be asking a bunch that the opposite day.  I used to be like, “What would a velocity bump seem like that might drive you to simply go, ‘I’m simply going to pause to do one thing totally different, or at the least change my tempo a bit’?”  And folks had been speaking about small issues like, “I can not bear in mind the final time I did not eat my lunch at my desk”.  So, they had been like, “Possibly simply taking a lunch break”. Or I mentioned, “I am an enormous fan of strolling”.  So, I just about go for a stroll each single day.  And I try this, to be sincere, much less for bodily rewards, extra for psychological rewards. 

And so I mentioned to them, “When was the final time any of you went for a stroll throughout your work day?”  And it was, “By no means”, nobody had ever performed it because the pandemic.  Within the pandemic, that they had, as a result of I feel it was that forcing perform of, “I’ve obtained one likelihood to”.  However because the finish of the pandemic, they hadn’t.  And I used to be like, “Oh, that is so attention-grabbing”. 

And I feel it is actually because, as you described, we type of neglect that now we have these selections out there to us that you need to determine, you type of should take possession for these velocity bumps, or nonetheless you need to take into consideration these pauses, as a result of no one’s going to drive you to do that, I do not assume, whether or not you are in a large firm or whether or not you are like each of us, working for yourselves, you need to determine pausing is necessary sufficient to make it a precedence. I simply questioned out of your perspective, having written the guide and type of dived into it, what does this seem like for you?  Have been you already doing this brilliantly and that is why you wrote the guide?  Or, have you ever performed some new issues on account of contemplating all of the totally different sensible methods you may make this occur?

Robert Poynton: I used to be doing a number of it already.  I’ve lived most of my life in Spain really, and in order that tradition in rural Spain as properly is far more attuned to that.  So, my spouse all the time teases me about how completely unjustified it’s for anyone that wasn’t born in Spain to be so utterly dedicated to having a siesta after lunch day by day, which I’ll do religiously.  Once I’m working on the Saïd Enterprise Faculty right here in Oxford, I’ll even discover a quiet nook to have only a 5-minute nap in a 40-minute lunch break. 

So, it is that necessary to me.  So, that is all the time there.  I’ve obtained a 25 yr outdated meditation observe, which is of course an interregnum or a pause of some type, and I am surrounded by individuals who, as an example, transfer at a special rhythm and provides a special significance to issues. So, in rural Spain if you meet with anyone, you are going to have a dialog.  The dialog isn’t going to be about something new, you are unlikely to study something, you are most likely going to say the identical belongings you mentioned final week.  However there is a type of recognition that that second of social interplay is value one thing in its personal proper, as you cease and see the opposite particular person and are seen by them.  So, for me, there was a number of that already built-in, which I feel was what sort of alerted me to the worth of it.  I feel although that there are there are new issues.  I imply, some actually mundane issues, how do you create velocity bumps?  Nicely, I work from home, and I put the printer in a spot which isn’t handy, it isn’t proper subsequent to me.  I do not print that many paperwork, it is true, however what it means is there’s an interregnum to go to the printer.  So, in a approach, I am type of forcing myself to take a tiny miniature stroll.

 And in that little house, there is a new type of pause.  Thresholds of any type are very attention-grabbing and helpful, so simply earlier than you begin the automotive, simply earlier than you come house, as you undergo the door for those who’ve been out. What’s attention-grabbing right here is the drive of behavior is a part of what you are referring to.  Habits are nice as a result of they help you in issues and scale back your cognitive load so you do not have to consider them.  However on the similar time, from time to time, to query or interrupt these ordinary patterns of behaviour and because it had been, to kind a brand new behavior of interruption or of the velocity bump, can really assist you.  So, if each time you seize your automotive keys, you simply take a breath, then that may begin to turn out to be built-in in a optimistic approach.  So, you type of need to each interrupt habits, but additionally use habits to your benefit.

Sarah Ellis: You referenced, you will should remind me of his identify, I feel he was a CEO who listened to some jazz on the finish of his day within the workplace, is that proper?.

Robert Poynton: That is proper, that was Tom Hockaday right here in Oxford.  So, he ran the college’s expertise switch enterprise for about ten years, Isis Innovation it is referred to as, and he would play the Dave Brubeck observe.  He would shut his workplace door, so truthful sufficient, he had an workplace, he was the boss, he might try this.  Not all people has that, however you would do it in headphones.  And he’d shut the workplace door and he’d play Take 5 and he would take, because it occurs, the actual model he listened to is 5 minutes and eight seconds lengthy, so it is nearly excellent.  And once I requested him about that, he did not say he did it for any specific purpose.  He did it to introduce that house, an area between the workplace and residential, in order that he did not, as he mentioned, carry work house with him, type of carry it unconsciously with him.  And generally, an concept about one thing he needed to do the subsequent day would happen to him in that little house, one thing he’d forgotten.  Typically he would simply daydream, generally he would take into consideration how he was going house and who he was going house to and the way a lot that mattered to him. So, it wasn’t that it was one other process, it was an empty house which in keeping with the day, in keeping with the second he would fill, however turned a productive behavior.  I think about after some time, he obtained bored of Dave Brubeck, and possibly modified the observe.  However anyway, you understand it, a tune is an effective size of time, lengthy sufficient however not too lengthy that you are able to do that.

Sarah Ellis: Yeah, and I feel the rationale it made me contemplate a few of my pauses is I usually work from home, most likely at the least 50% of the time, and so me within the night, then seeing my 7-year-old, appears to be like like strolling downstairs.  I feel if you naturally have a commute or a stroll, it generally creates that second of pause and also you do probably pause, not all the time, you generally rush within the door, however for those who can take a deep breath after which be prepared for the 7-year-old.  Whereas I generally assume, the place I’d profit from pausing is definitely in that second the place I then assume, as a result of my work has a number of selection, “I’m performed working now and I’m now right here for my 7-year-old”. 

Once more, one thing would assist me I feel earlier than I walked down these stairs!

Robert Poynton: Yeah, I imply I feel that is proper.  Put up-pandemic and with extra individuals working at house, that interregnum, that type of parenthetical house of the journey to work, no matter medium of transport you used, type of evaporated for many individuals.  And one among my favorite tales about that could be a pal of mine who’d modified jobs simply earlier than the pandemic, and he all the time used to cycle to work.  And so what he did is he went to his biking machine, which was within the backyard, I can not bear in mind what they’re referred to as, however these stationary bikes, after which in his thoughts, do the journey to work.  After which in the future, as a result of he’d simply modified jobs, in his thoughts he went the fallacious approach.  And so what he did, which was actually humorous, is he did not type of go, “By no means thoughts, I am going to simply arrive”.  He then needed to cycle again in his thoughts to the place he’d gone fallacious, after which cycle to the brand new workplace, after which he arrived with this jokey story about, “I am sorry I am late, I went the fallacious approach to work”. So, a really foolish concept, however simply the notion of even when it is only a second or a single tune observe, or a cup of espresso or cup of tea the place you do not take into consideration something, you do not have a pen in your hand, you do not have your cellphone in your hand, you simply look out the window, how would possibly you create a home transition in order that strolling down the steps, possibly you stroll down the steps actually slowly, like actually slowly, one step at a time, a type of strolling meditation.  However none of that occurs except you give it significance and recognise its worth.  That is the necessary factor.

Sarah Ellis: And one of many workout routines that I did instantly type of dwell as I used to be studying it, my favorite books are all the time books that find yourself with plenty of notes in and I am afraid your guide has been scrawled throughout, so it would not look very pristine any extra, was you describe it because the ‘scanner train’.  And so, we at the moment are going to try to speak about an train that I feel is kind of visible, in an audio approach for our listeners to type of carry this to life.  And so, the way in which the scanner train works, or actually the way in which that I interpreted it, having learn it, and you’ll inform me for those who assume that is proper and the way you’d construct on this, is that you could mirror again on any time frame.  So, you would possibly begin with yesterday, you would possibly have a look at final week, however you would additionally zoom out and take into consideration within the final yr, and also you’re nearly visually making an attempt to take a look at the tempo when it comes to the way you spend your time, how a lot house do you’ve and the way a lot velocity do you’ve, and what does that seem like.  And I feel you utilize circles for house and contours for velocity. Truly instinctively and intuitively, right away, that made sense to me.  I might look again over my yesterday and I knew straightaway what felt like velocity and what felt like house.  And to your level, house did not imply I used to be staring into house, nevertheless it did imply I would chosen to make myself a pleasant espresso somewhat than an instantaneous one, as a result of that was going to take 5 minutes longer.  It did imply selecting to possibly decelerate in a dialog with anyone.

 Moderately than, “Oh, I’ve obtained a listing of 5 issues we have to speak about”, really asking anyone how their vacation was.  For me, that represented extra space than velocity.  And I do know a couple of individuals have began to have a go and I do not assume all people discovered it fairly as instinctive as I did, and so I simply questioned whether or not you would describe it a bit extra for individuals, as a result of everybody was so eager to have a go at this.  And I used to be considering, properly for me, it clicked instantly, however I feel some individuals discover it onerous to work out, “How do I categorise velocity versus house?”  So, yeah, maybe we might speak about it a bit extra, as a result of I like it as an train.

Robert Poynton: Certain, and credit score the place it is due, the unique concept for this notation got here from Adam Morgan, my pal Adam Morgan at Eat Massive Fish.

Sarah Ellis: Oh, we love Adam, he is been on the podcast.

Robert Poynton: I’ve repurposed it for a totally totally different software, however this concept of this distinction between velocity and house got here out of some work we did collectively.  So, yeah, I feel the secret’s to not give it some thought.  I feel that individuals wrestle once they try to have interaction their rational thoughts and their final analytical thoughts, and the final word downside there may be…

Sarah Ellis: Possibly that is why I all the time discovered it straightforward! Robert Poynton: Nicely maybe, maybe.  It is when individuals assume it is like filling in a calendar or a diary the place you’ll be able to go, “What was I doing at 11?”  It is not about that.  You would possibly draw a day, let’s take yesterday.  It is not like you need to determine of eight characters, which of them are ones and which of them are zeros.  You would possibly draw 15 zeros within the morning, or circles, as a result of it felt very spacious and you did not have any calls or commitments and also you had been capable of go for a stroll, or do no matter you felt like.  After which, you would possibly do three quick strokes within the afternoon which signify a collection of calls, one in every.  So, the factor is to not be too analytical to not assume it via. How do you determine what to place?  It’s important to get in contact along with your emotions, it is about the way it felt.  And velocity and house are the headlines, however 4 stops on the tube simply type of in a drowsy, early-morning state would possibly really feel very spacious and expansive, and a morning of intense exercise would possibly fly by.  So, you are making an attempt to catch your self not considering and also you’re making an attempt to make use of your hand to attract one thing that you could then have a look at and go, “Oh, yeah, that appears like that”.  Then, the choices you’ve as soon as you’ve got obtained some type of image is to then say, “Do I like how that’s?”  

As a result of once more, I feel the factor that journeys individuals up is that they assume there is a proper approach to do that.  There actually is not.  There’s simply your approach to try to get a way and a really feel for a way your time is working for you and whether or not you need to change it. So, the opposite factor, the opposite clue to truly filling this in is, do it shortly.  And for those who do not like what you’ve got performed, otherwise you get caught otherwise you get locked up, simply screw up the paper, throw it away, begin once more.  Do not sit there and agonise over it, simply try to do it in a type of quick, felt, sense approach.  After which have interaction your considering thoughts if you have a look at it and go, “Do I like that?  Does that really feel good?  Is that how I need it to be?”  In the event you get actually caught, strive a special time frame, strive a shorter time or a very long time, as a result of you are able to do it, as you mentioned in the beginning, Sarah, for a complete yr; you would do it for an hour.  And like most issues, for those who simply strive it a bit and practise a bit, you will discover your approach there.  However on the similar time, if it is actually locking you up and also you’re actually fighting it, it is most likely not for you, so don’t be concerned about it, do one thing else.

Sarah Ellis: A few my associates who talked to me about it, they’re most likely a few of the smartest people who I do know.  And I ponder whether they had been making an attempt to do it proper, as a result of they had been asking me, “What’s the fitting approach to do that?  Would that be this or would this be this?” whereas I feel I most likely simply felt my approach, and similar to you mentioned, did it shortly and really instinctively as I used to be studying.  I used to be like, “Oh, I am going to simply have a look at yesterday and I am going to simply have a look at final week”.  So, I feel there’s some good recommendation there.  I feel I discovered the zooming in and zooming out attention-grabbing, as a result of generally you is likely to be pleased with yesterday, however then really you is likely to be much less pleased with the final three months that may then immediate some modifications.

Robert Poynton: And two different issues you would do mechanically to assist that.  One could be, do it along with your non-dominant hand, so for those who’re left-handed do it along with your proper hand, for those who’re right-handed do it along with your left hand.  It is simply strains and circles; you’ll be able to handle that.  And for those who get actually caught, then enquire into the stuck-ness, so the place is it you are getting caught, what are you getting caught about?  Don’t fret about finishing the train, as a result of who cares, no one’s watching.  Possibly it is worth or advantage is it may present you the place to look, “Why am I so caught on this?” and get inquisitive about that and see what that yields.

Sarah Ellis: Nicely I liked it, and getting plenty of individuals to strive it out in workshops, and individuals are really actually having fun with experimenting with it.  So, two very sensible brains, you and Adam coming collectively.  I hadn’t realised additionally the reference to Adam, in order that’s nice, and would not shock me both.  Are there every other items of recommendation that you simply want to depart our listeners with?  So, having spent plenty of time diving into pausing and likewise practising it for your self, is there something we have not talked about right now the place you assume, “If there’s one different factor that I would actually like to go away the Squiggly Careers listeners with, it might be…?”

Robert Poynton: I do not know if we have touched on this already, possibly now we have, nevertheless it appears to me that, “The unexamined life isn’t value dwelling”, to cite Socrates, that even except you pause in a Squiggly Profession, not simply when it comes to the day-to-day productiveness — I spoke with somebody this morning, for instance, who talked about how when the pandemic hit and she or he obtained an opportunity to take a ways from her work, she realised she hated it and she or he hated her boss and she or he needed to make a change.  And she or he did and she or he has flourished enormously since. 

So, I feel that the concept that pause is not nearly squeezing out extra, that mentality in a approach is what leads it to be troublesome.  There’s something concerning the depth and high quality of time that is out there to us to simply take, and it would not must be a lot, however to offer ourselves the credit score of taking just a little little bit of time to contemplate what actually issues to us, and to open up these areas in order that we will pursue different avenues, get a brand new perspective on ourselves, ask ourselves the larger deeper questions. So, I feel a Squiggly Profession is, by definition, going to have turning factors, whereas motion and exercise tends to maintain you getting in the identical line.  So, if you wish to make these attention-grabbing arcs, I discover it very troublesome to think about how you’ll try this with out some pause.  So, there’s quite a bit at stake right here and there is quite a bit to be gained and there is various inventive alternative available, like a little bit of yeast in bread.  You do not want a lot, however with out the yeast the bread turns into heavy and lumpen and boring.  That is how I consider pauses, they’re the yeast.

Sarah Ellis: Nicely I hope this dialog has been a pause for individuals.  I do know that plenty of individuals take heed to the podcast and so they do see it as a pause of their day, possibly as some house.  Typically individuals are out strolling with their canines or they’re simply listening whereas they’re having a espresso.  So, I really feel like we have maybe gone meta on pausing.  We’re pausing on pausing right now.  We have talked about pausing, hopefully whereas individuals are pausing, and possibly we have satisfied some individuals as properly to simply check out pausing, or possibly give your self permission to pause in a brand new approach.

Robert Poynton: Implausible.

Sarah Ellis: However thanks a lot, Rob.  I liked the guide, I actually loved the workout routines in it.  I feel I used to be already an advocate of the pause, however much more so now.  So, thanks a lot for sharing your concepts and your insights so generously with us right now.

Robert Poynton: By no means, it has been a pleasure.  Thanks.

Sarah Ellis: Hello, all people, it is Sarah once more.  I hope you loved that dialog with Rob, and it is impressed you to consider including some pauses into your day.  At all times ship us concepts for those who’ve obtained individuals that you simply’d love us to speak to on the podcast.  It is helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com.  However that is all the pieces for this week.  We’ll be again with you once more subsequent week.  Thanks a lot for listening and we’ll be again with you once more quickly.  Bye for now.