00:00:00: Introduction
00:00:59: Why affect is essential
00:02:36: Seven expertise of affect
00:04:03: Important statements
00:10:27: Stunning subjects
00:15:01: Take-away actions
00:20:21: Closing ideas
Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen.
Sarah Ellis: And I am Sarah.
Helen Tupper: And also you’re listening to the second week of the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership. So, that is one thing that we’ve created to kickstart your studying in 2025, and likewise create a little bit of a neighborhood round one thing we actually care about, which is growth and focusing in your profession growth. At the moment, Sarah and I are going to speak a couple of videobook which was recorded by Bob Cialdini and it is referred to as Affect: the Psychology of Persuasion.
Sarah Ellis: And so, why is affect essential in our Squiggly Careers? I believe there are some things when you consider affect. I used to be reflecting on, when do we have to have affect in Squiggly Careers, and I believe there’s two ‘whens’. There’s the when that is related to your work, to your day job, after which there’s the when that is related extra to your profession.
So, I believe in your profession, there are specific moments that matter the place you want to have lots of affect. So, if you happen to’re in an interview, you are attempting to affect that particular person to provide you a job; if you’re making a profession change, you are attempting to affect someone that you have these transferable abilities, you are attempting to influence folks; and I believe in a extra day-to-day manner, which I believe is how affect usually most likely exhibits up extra generally, we’re all attempting to affect one another, I believe, the entire time, which might really feel a bit uncomfortable. I believe as I used to be going by means of this videobook, fairly just a few of the ideas and concepts did make me a bit uncomfortable. However I believe right here, that is actually about simply being good.
So, if we need to have affect, usually we have to share our work with different folks, we wish different folks to be on board with that work, to assist and to sponsor that work, so I do assume affect does not need to be — we’re not manipulating. As I used to be going by means of, the reconciliation I believe I obtained by means of in my very own thoughts with a few of these concepts was, there’s a distinction between affect to extend your affect, and manipulation, which is extra, I do not know, seedy, and also you’re doing one thing in not a really good manner simply to get a sure or simply to get your individual manner.
After which, after I take into consideration the folks I’ve labored with who’ve actually unbelievable affect, I might by no means describe them as manipulative. I might simply at all times describe them as, they knew the way to construct actually sensible relationships. And I believe there is a actually sturdy connection between your skill to construct sensible relationships after which your skill to affect. That was the method I went by means of as I watched the videobook!
Helen Tupper: Nicely, to be truthful, I believe Bob Cialdini within the videobook does acknowledge that on fairly just a few factors.
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, he does.
Helen Tupper: So, if that is the primary time you are coming throughout his work, he mainly talks by means of these seven completely different expertise actually of affect, these various things that you are able to do to affect an end result. And I’ve come throughout his work years and years in the past. I imply, his guide is a New York Occasions bestseller, after which some. And I believe I got here throughout it within the context of promoting most likely like ten years in the past, as a result of in advertising, lots of time you are attempting to affect somebody to buy. And so, they’re notably related to that career, in addition to work and careers extra broadly. However he does speak within the videobook about when someone is likely to be utilizing this explicit talent of affect in a manner that is a little more manipulative, and what are the watch-outs for that. So, I believe he does cowl it. And his insights about these expertise are primarily based on years and years of analysis.
So, within the videobook and his precise guide, there’s lots of analysis that he talks by means of to convey these items to life. So at this time, Sarah and I are going to speak about a few of these expertise.
We will discuss issues that caught with us and issues that we discovered shocking and issues we will do on account of watching the videobook. After which tomorrow, you may hear a dialog with me and Bob, the place he really shares just a few extra of these form of analysis tales. You may hear a bit bit extra from his perspective, a number of years on after writing the guide, his form of up to date view, as a result of in actual fact there is a new talent that he added extra not too long ago, which is one thing referred to as ‘unity’, the facility of unity in influencing folks. However we will see whether or not that was one thing that caught with Sarah or not. So, go on, let’s begin. What was one thing that caught with you from watching the videobook?
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, the phrase that I wrote down was this concept of ‘peersuasion’. And that is the idea of what he describes as ‘social proofing’, which is basically we’re actually impacted by our friends, so what different individuals are doing, people who we perhaps really feel are much like us, and even simply doing the same factor to us. Once we make choices, we’re nearly much less influenced by what we predict and extra influenced usually by what different folks assume. And once more, I am going, “Oh, I can see how that’s true, but in addition I need to be influenced by what I believe”.
However if you happen to then take into consideration procuring, so whenever you go onto a lot of web sites now, it at all times says, , “29 different individuals are this merchandise”, actually a boring merchandise I am normally shopping for for my new home, like this bin, it is normally a bin. “29 different individuals are this bin”, or issues like, “5 different folks have gotten this bin of their basket” and I believe it creates a way of urgency and he talks about this FOMO, Worry Of Lacking Out. And I nearly felt like really understanding that, generally understanding a few of these techniques, you may make a selection about whether or not to be influenced by them. So, fairly than simply considering, “Nicely, I will purchase this bin as a result of everyone’s shopping for this bin”, you assume, “Nicely, do I really need this bin? Is that this the fitting bin for me?” which tells you a bit about what’s occurring in my life proper now and the way boring it’s!
Helen Tupper: It is lots of bin chat!
Sarah Ellis: It is lots of bin chat. However I used to be considering from a piece context, I do assume it’s fascinating, as a result of usually I believe whenever you’re attempting to affect, you consider the particular person. So, I is likely to be like, “Oh, I must affect Helen round this choice that I would like her to say sure to”. And that is likely to be true. However one different factor that I’d need to do is consider, effectively, who does Helen spend time with? And who’s Helen influenced by?
As a result of I’ve usually seen this with management groups. Like, that is why folks find yourself, perhaps earlier than choices, going to have conversations with fairly just a few completely different folks, as a result of if you may get just a few folks on board after which if Helen wasn’t that certain however her friends have been all saying, “Oh, yeah, I believe this can be a good thought, I believe we must be investing on this”, then Helen may need been on the fence, however perhaps that is the sort of tipping level to assume, “Okay, effectively, I respect the opinions of the people who I work with, the friends that I work with, and so really, it is an fascinating manner of influencing. I used to be beginning to consider careers and taking actions round careers, and the way we might assist folks with that by form of going, effectively, really, if you happen to create a very sturdy neighborhood, if you consider peersuasion as neighborhood, which is one other tackle it, really communities appearing collectively and sharing what they’re doing will assist to affect, have a very optimistic ripple impact. So, somebody might say, “Oh, effectively, I attempted asking this strengths suggestions query. That is the query I requested, and are you aware what? It labored very well”. After which in that neighborhood, you go, “Oh, okay, effectively, they’re all a part of the Squiggly Careers neighborhood, perhaps I will have a go at asking that query”. I might think about then the ripple results of peersuasion really being actually optimistic if you happen to put that neighborhood lens on it, “Oh, however he does not discuss that, however this was me making my very own connections”, in order that’s the place I obtained to.
Helen Tupper: I believe that can be why we’re asking folks to share their badges to say, , “I am a part of the Videobook Membership”, as a result of whenever you see folks such as you studying, it makes you need to be taught too. There’s one thing he mentioned, I wrote down, within the videobook on this level, and he mentioned, “If they’ll, I can”. That is sort of a part of the peersuasion. And so, if you have not shared your Videobook Membership badge but, please do, as a result of then extra folks will need to be taught like you might be. The factor that caught for me was the factors he mentioned about authority.
So, one among his rules is that we’re influenced by folks in positions of authority. And there is one thing I believe in what he mentioned, which is useful so that you can know, so how one can affect folks together with your authority. After which I believe it is also, , Sarah talked concerning the watch-outs. I believe there is a little bit of a watch-out to this as effectively. So, particularly what he mentioned that caught with me was that, “You will get authority both since you are in authority”, which is positional energy, , you are a supervisor, you are a director, you are a head of the challenge, no matter it’s, so positional energy, “or you might be an authority”, so you might be seen as someone who has experience in that space. And I believe we aren’t at all times in authority, we have not at all times obtained that position in an organization, however I believe that you’ve got the facility to turn into an authority. So, if I take into consideration us, I have not had a Head of HR job in a giant company, however I might argue that we’re an authority on profession growth, as a result of we’ve actually centered on that space and we have finished lots of work on that space and we have written books on it. However that’s one thing that nobody mentioned to us you’ll be able to or cannot try this, we determined to do this and we have turn into an authority in that space.
I do like the concept that that’s one thing that is in all of our management. We’d not be in authority, however we are able to all turn into an authority, and that has affect over others. So, I like that, that caught with me, as a result of I felt it is extra liberating than the ladder, proper? The ladder is all about being the authority due to positional energy, and I discover this thought extra liberating. However the watch-out is the truth that we’re influenced by these items, notably people who find themselves in authority, so they have that positional energy. That may be all the things from they seem to be a senior director or they’re a health care provider or, , these items the place we put labels on folks as a result of we see them as somebody who’s in authority.
However simply because they’re in authority doesn’t imply that what they are saying, you need to associate with or consider. I believe simply having a little bit of a pause and saying, “Simply since you are in authority, does that imply I actually need to be influenced by you?” and simply asking your self that query, as a result of intuitively, that does have an effect on us; however if you happen to pause and simply query, “However do I actually need to be influenced by you simply since you’re in authority?”, I believe it is fairly behaviour to construct in the way in which that you just assume and the way in which that you just need to be influenced by issues. So, what stunned you then? What was one thing you have been like, “Oh, did not count on that”?
Sarah Ellis: There was an instance that he shared about procuring trolleys or procuring carts, as I believe they’re described within the US. It stunned me and felt actually memorable as usually, I believe perhaps generally we’ll make the error of considering, when you have a good suggestion for one thing, that can create affect, like if the standard of the concept is nice, that is ok. So, I will share an thought with you, and I will be like, “I really feel like I am actually assured on this thought and truly, by me sharing the concept, that can affect you, as a result of so long as I share it in the fitting manner, it is a good suggestion”.
However this instance proves that a good suggestion is usually not ok to influence folks, to affect folks, notably round, I assume, behaviour change or doing one thing completely different. The procuring trolley instance is, years and years in the past, there’s mainly the man, he owned some supermarkets and he went and watched his clients, which I at all times assume is a very good manner to consider affect, like go and spend time with folks. We generally discuss empathy experiences, , spend time observing, watching how do folks really behave fairly than declare they behave, which regularly there’s fairly a giant distinction between these issues. And from spending time in his supermarkets, he realised that folks’s baskets, which is all folks had at the moment, once they obtained too full, clearly they obtained too heavy and then you definitely spend much less cash, you cease procuring. And he invented the procuring trolley. And I used to be like, “Superb, what an innovation!” And you’ll think about that concept would communicate for itself. I am like, you should not need to affect folks, certainly you are identical to, “However look, it is greater and on wheels!”
Helen Tupper: “A much bigger basket on wheels, superb!”
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, however no person used them. So, folks did not use them as a result of folks would actually stroll previous them and everyone defaults again to outdated behaviour. And the way in which that he obtained folks, the way in which that he influenced and persuaded folks to a minimum of give them a strive, was he mainly used his personal folks to then go and mainly role-model the behaviour that he was in search of. And so, then I believe it does must be a good suggestion, as a result of if you happen to go and check out it and it does not work, then clearly it does fall down. However I believed it was a very helpful reminder, as someone who loves arising with concepts, that concepts alone are sometimes not sufficient.
It’s worthwhile to get folks attempting it and you want to take into consideration how do you make it straightforward to do this, how are you going to get different folks role-modelling it, these sort of early adopters. And generally, you may need to assume actually creatively about what that appears like, and that may begin the affect and persuasion that then provides your concepts the legs that you just’re in search of. So, yeah, I imply partly most likely as a result of I’ve labored in grocery store, however I simply liked the instance. I believed it was a very fascinating story, and I might actually join it to the work that we do, the place generally I believe I might be a bit responsible of generally considering, “Nicely, what we have provide you with is so sensible, it will be positive, as a result of it is so sensible. Why would folks not need to use this?” Whereas you are like, “Okay, really, we have started working a bit tougher”. It was reminder.
Helen Tupper: There was one factor that I used to be like, “That may be a good level”, which is the, ‘get a small sure to an even bigger sure’. I used to be like, “Oh, I might forgotten about that time”. So, once more, within the videobook, there’s this instance given about they wished folks to place a giant signal outdoors their home about, was it about environmental issues or one thing, recycling?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah.
Helen Tupper: I am unable to bear in mind. They wished folks to place a giant signal and other people simply would not try this, as a result of who needs a large signal outdoors their pretty home?
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, on their garden.
Helen Tupper: Yeah. And so, that was a giant ask and so they obtained a giant no. So, what they did as an alternative within the experiment was they knocked on the homes and so they mentioned, “Would you assist this marketing campaign we’re doing by placing a small sticker in your window? And since that was a smaller ask, they obtained extra yeses. However the actually fascinating factor is, once they went again to these homes per week or two later and mentioned, “Thanks to your assist, would you be prepared to place this check in your backyard to assist us?” way more folks mentioned sure.
So, I believe at work, if there is a massive ask, perhaps do not go in first with a giant ask. Take into consideration what can be a smaller ask that’s extra prone to result in a sure, and then you definitely’ve obtained that small dedication.
And it signifies that then, whenever you go in with a barely greater ask, you are ranging from a barely completely different place. I might form of forgotten that time, and I believed that is fairly a great way, as a result of generally you simply deal with the large factor that you really want, and then you definitely get a no and you’re feeling a bit defeated by it. However going, “Nicely, if that is what I need, what’s the very first thing I will ask for?” to nearly heat the dialog up, after which I can return to that particular person for the larger factor. So, shifting on to motion then, what are you going to do in another way on account of having watched this videobook?
Sarah Ellis: Nicely, one of many issues that did stand out for me was precisely what you’ve got simply described, round small actions result in vital actions. And he describes particularly, if you happen to do need to affect somebody to do one thing, if they’ve an motion that’s constant, actually lively and public, such as you’ve really shared an motion, I assume it is like sharing a videobook on LinkedIn, that is a public discussion board; I guess, it is a speculation, however I guess if you happen to share that you just’re a part of the Videobook Membership on LinkedIn, you might be more likely to observe the entire videobooks, simply because you’ve gotten publicly dedicated, although nobody’s watching you or holding you to account.
Helen Tupper: I’m everyone, I’m!
Sarah Ellis: Yeah, aside from Helen, who one way or the other is watching you all! So, I used to be interested by, I ponder what this might imply for a way we strategy profession growth. So, usually we do, in our workshops and in our programmes, we’ll discuss small actions. So, I used to be like, “Oh, that is factor”. So, fairly than us saying, we’d discuss strengths-based suggestions is an efficient factor, however then we’d at all times drill right down to it; one small motion you’ll be able to take is, ask your supervisor or a colleague three phrases to explain me at my finest. Or fairly than saying, discover your values, we’d say, write down three issues that matter to you at work. So, I used to be like, “Oh, that is good”.
So, I believe we do the small motion factor effectively. What I do not assume we do as effectively is the making it public. So, usually on the finish of a workshop, I’ll say to folks, or on the finish of a programme, I’ll usually say to folks, “Share within the chat now the one motion you are going to take”, and I get some folks doing that, however manner fewer than I might have in that group. And so, I am not getting that many individuals to share publicly their motion. After which consequently, I am most likely influencing these folks lower than I might need to, as a result of I need these folks to go and take these actions. And I bear in mind the instance within the videobook of, Bob Cialdini was attempting to get his college students’ mother and father to fill out a kind, and mainly none of them did it as a result of who likes filling out a kind? After which he modified his strategy the place he mentioned to the mother and father, “In case you fill out this manner, your child will get one further level of their project”, or no matter it was. And I used to be like, “Oh, that is fascinating”. You are simply giving folks a small motivator to do one thing that you really want them to do.
You are attempting to affect them to do it. I used to be considering, there isn’t any payoff actually. There is no promise or no payoff that I give folks as a part of our studying to share their motion. I simply mainly say — I do say, “Share it, and if you happen to share it, you are extra prone to decide to it”, like sharing works. However there isn’t any fast payoff, there isn’t any in-the-moment payoff. And so I used to be considering, how might I finish these periods in another way that might imply, as an example 25% of individuals share their small motion now, what wouldn’t it take for me to affect 85% of these folks to share their small motion?
So, I used to be considering perhaps that might be, for everybody who shares their motion, might we then instantly ship them one thing at no cost? May we ship them a brief model of Gremlins, like the way to overcome your confidence Gremlins? May we share with them some unique content material that you just solely get if you happen to’ve shared your motion. So, I hadn’t fairly obtained to what I might then give that folks would actually worth, as a result of I believe it is obtained to be one thing like, everyone needs another level on their project, proper? So, I like how easy and simple and compelling that’s. And so, I hadn’t fairly obtained but to what our factor can be, however I did just like the psychology of that. And I consider that that was a win-win. It is a win for us if folks go away and take motion, like we’re influencing folks to take motion as a result of it would create a snowball impact of growth and studying; and I consider that I’m influencing folks for the fitting causes, it felt like factor to affect.
Helen Tupper: So, I did have the peersuasion factor as effectively, however I believe one of many actions I want to take is, one of many rules that we’ve not talked about an excessive amount of but is reciprocation. So, if I assist somebody, they’re extra possible to assist me, so I can affect them by giving first. And I sort of knew that, we have talked about that earlier than, it is one thing that comes up in Adam Grant’s work on Give and Take, and we’ve this precept in our work referred to as, ‘folks serving to folks’, which is form of primarily based on that, that folks like to provide and givers get extra. So, I sort of already knew that.
However the factor that I took from the videobook was that the timing is admittedly essential. So, if you’re giving to someone with the intent, I believe, of influencing, and I do not assume all giving is with the intent of influencing, however if you’re giving with the intent of influencing, then the timing of that’s essential. So, I am not going to provide to Sarah on a Monday after which in two weeks’ time, make an ask. I simply want to consider, effectively, when is Sarah going to be nearly most receptive to reciprocation, and simply assume a bit bit extra deliberately about who I am giving to and what I am giving and after I’m giving.
As a result of I believe I like giving, giving feels good. But when I need to affect then I simply must be a bit extra intentional. That is most likely simply the motion I’ve taken away from it. So, that’s the finish of at this time. We’d love to listen to your reflections if you happen to’ve been watching the videobook. So, you’ll be able to both e-mail us these ideas and insights. We’re helenandsarah@squigglycareers.com, or you’ll be able to be a part of the neighborhood dialog which is going on on LinkedIn stay this week, the week of the podcast, on Thursday. So, we would like to see you there and listen to what you have to say if you wish to be a part of that. And we additionally need to say a giant thanks to Lit Videobooks, who’ve made it potential for everybody to be taught within the Squiggly Careers Videobook Membership, as a result of they’ve given you all free entry to their videobooks for 2 months. So, don’t be concerned if you have not watched it but, you’ve got obtained till the tip of February to get entry to the videobooks.
Sarah Ellis: Subsequent week, we’ll be speaking about burnout and stress, which I promise will likely be extra enjoyable than it sounds. So, be a part of us for that, however that is all the things for at this time. Thanks a lot for listening and we’ll be again with you once more quickly. Bye for now.
Helen Tupper: Bye everybody.
